Navy F-35C Gets A Big Wing

On Jul 5, 10:07 pm, wrote:
See:

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs...plckController...

This means the F-35C will have a bigger wing than the F-15.

Crap . . . Don't even want to think what this redesign will cost. I
think JSF is an airplane we need, but does anyone recall the last time
a "clean sheet" design came even close to the estimated cost. I
understand part of the problem rests with the vendors trying to
underbid each other . . . and another part of the problem is that it
would be nice for the customer to have a better developed idea of what
he wants. Problem with that idea development process . . . is that it
costs money too. Dang . . . almost Catch 22

Sorry for the rant . . . take care all

John

"John" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 5, 10:07 pm, wrote:
See:

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs...plckController...

This means the F-35C will have a bigger wing than the F-15.

Crap . . . Don't even want to think what this redesign will cost. I
think JSF is an airplane we need, but does anyone recall the last time
a "clean sheet" design came even close to the estimated cost. I
understand part of the problem rests with the vendors trying to
underbid each other . . . and another part of the problem is that it
would be nice for the customer to have a better developed idea of what
he wants. Problem with that idea development process . . . is that it
costs money too. Dang . . . almost Catch 22

Sorry for the rant . . . take care all

John

One of my oldest and best friends is part of the F-35C carrier suitability
group. There are a lot of issues with the aircraft, many of which stem from
the design team's unfamiliarity with carrier operations and the design
requirements imposed: approach speed, attitude on touchdown, wingfold to
reduce deck multiple, maintenance implications ... the engine size makes R&R
difficult ... etc.

While the aircraft should introduce many capabilities that strike aviation
would love to have, I wonder if we'll be able to afford it in its final
configuration or live with the several OBTW's that will undoubtedly
accompany its introduction.

R / John

In article , "John Carrier"
wrote:

"John" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 5, 10:07 pm, wrote:
See:

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs...plckController...

This means the F-35C will have a bigger wing than the F-15.

Crap . . . Don't even want to think what this redesign will cost. I
think JSF is an airplane we need, but does anyone recall the last time
a "clean sheet" design came even close to the estimated cost. I
understand part of the problem rests with the vendors trying to
underbid each other . . . and another part of the problem is that it
would be nice for the customer to have a better developed idea of what
he wants. Problem with that idea development process . . . is that it
costs money too. Dang . . . almost Catch 22

Sorry for the rant . . . take care all

John

One of my oldest and best friends is part of the F-35C carrier suitability
group. There are a lot of issues with the aircraft, many of which stem from
the design team's unfamiliarity with carrier operations and the design
requirements imposed: approach speed, attitude on touchdown, wingfold to
reduce deck multiple, maintenance implications ... the engine size makes R&R
difficult ... etc.

I went through Carrier Suitability training back in the 90's as a prelim to the
JAST program, which eventually morphed into JSF.
A very interesting class.


While the aircraft should introduce many capabilities that strike aviation
would love to have, I wonder if we'll be able to afford it in its final
configuration or live with the several OBTW's that will undoubtedly
accompany its introduction.

Note that the F-35C will be the last version produced. The Navy has F/A-18E/Fs
and it may well come to pass that they would rather continue to buy F-18s
than pay through the nose for F-35Cs.
I personally predict that few F-35C's will be built.

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

SNIP

Note that the F-35C will be the last version produced. The Navy has
F/A-18E/Fs
and it may well come to pass that they would rather continue to buy F-18s
than pay through the nose for F-35Cs.
I personally predict that few F-35C's will be built.

Agreed. Few or none.

R / John

On Jul 6, 10:52 pm, "John Carrier" wrote:
SNIP

Note that the F-35C will be the last version produced. The Navy has
F/A-18E/Fs
and it may well come to pass that they would rather continue to buy F-18s
than pay through the nose for F-35Cs.
I personally predict that few F-35C's will be built.

Agreed. Few or none.

R / John

A conclusion similar to this study.

http://www.csbaonline.org/4Publicati...er_Moderni.pdf

Hopefully, if they won't eventually buy the -C model, they will stop
the design/development process before too many costs are racked up.

No DOD corporate memory - didn't we learn anything from McNamara's TFX
fiasco?

The Air Force has used Navy fighter [F-4s}and attack [A-7s] aircraft
from concrete runways. The Navy can NOT use Air Force fighter and attack
aircraft from carriers!

WDA

end



mike Z wrote:
On Jul 6, 10:52 pm, "John Carrier" wrote:
SNIP

Note that the F-35C will be the last version produced. The Navy has
F/A-18E/Fs
and it may well come to pass that they would rather continue to buy F-18s
than pay through the nose for F-35Cs.
I personally predict that few F-35C's will be built.
Agreed. Few or none.

R / John

A conclusion similar to this study.

http://www.csbaonline.org/4Publicati...er_Moderni.pdf

Hopefully, if they won't eventually buy the -C model, they will stop
the design/development process before too many costs are racked up.

They could have had this

Ready to go

http://www.boeing.com/ids/news/1999/...se_991214n.htm


"W. D. Allen" wrote in message
...
No DOD corporate memory - didn't we learn anything from McNamara's TFX
fiasco?

The Air Force has used Navy fighter [F-4s}and attack [A-7s] aircraft from
concrete runways. The Navy can NOT use Air Force fighter and attack
aircraft from carriers!

WDA

end



mike Z wrote:
On Jul 6, 10:52 pm, "John Carrier" wrote:
SNIP

Note that the F-35C will be the last version produced. The Navy has
F/A-18E/Fs
and it may well come to pass that they would rather continue to buy
F-18s
than pay through the nose for F-35Cs.
I personally predict that few F-35C's will be built.
Agreed. Few or none.

R / John

A conclusion similar to this study.

http://www.csbaonline.org/4Publicati...er_Moderni.pdf

Hopefully, if they won't eventually buy the -C model, they will stop
the design/development process before too many costs are racked up.

W. D. Allen wrote:
No DOD corporate memory - didn't we learn anything from McNamara's TFX
fiasco?

The Air Force has used Navy fighter [F-4s}and attack [A-7s] aircraft
from concrete runways. The Navy can NOT use Air Force fighter and attack
aircraft from carriers!

North American FJ-2 and FJ-3 Fury?

Cheers,

On Jul 7, 8:03 am, (Harry Andreas) wrote:
In article , "John Carrier"



wrote:
"John" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 5, 10:07 pm, wrote:
See:

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs...plckController...

This means the F-35C will have a bigger wing than the F-15.

Crap . . . Don't even want to think what this redesign will cost. I
think JSF is an airplane we need, but does anyone recall the last time
a "clean sheet" design came even close to the estimated cost. I
understand part of the problem rests with the vendors trying to
underbid each other . . . and another part of the problem is that it
would be nice for the customer to have a better developed idea of what
he wants. Problem with that idea development process . . . is that it
costs money too. Dang . . . almost Catch 22

Sorry for the rant . . . take care all

John

One of my oldest and best friends is part of the F-35C carrier suitability
group. There are a lot of issues with the aircraft, many of which stem from
the design team's unfamiliarity with carrier operations and the design
requirements imposed: approach speed, attitude on touchdown, wingfold to
reduce deck multiple, maintenance implications ... the engine size makes R&R
difficult ... etc.

I went through Carrier Suitability training back in the 90's as a prelim to the
JAST program, which eventually morphed into JSF.
A very interesting class.

While the aircraft should introduce many capabilities that strike aviation
would love to have, I wonder if we'll be able to afford it in its final
configuration or live with the several OBTW's that will undoubtedly
accompany its introduction.

Note that the F-35C will be the last version produced. The Navy has F/A-18E/Fs
and it may well come to pass that they would rather continue to buy F-18s
than pay through the nose for F-35Cs.
I personally predict that few F-35C's will be built.

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

The F-35C will have good export prospects. One rumor has it that the
USAF purposely limited F-35 wing area so that only the F-22 had the
low wing loading to be a top class dog fighter so that program would
not be jeopardized in favor of an F-35.

The result is that the high wing load F-35 does not offer good dog
fighting abilities to nations that can't afford are can't be given an
F-22.

An F-35C adresses this issue.

SNIP

The F-35C will have good export prospects. One rumor has it that the
USAF purposely limited F-35 wing area so that only the F-22 had the
low wing loading to be a top class dog fighter so that program would
not be jeopardized in favor of an F-35.

The result is that the high wing load F-35 does not offer good dog
fighting abilities to nations that can't afford are can't be given an
F-22.

An F-35C adresses this issue.

It's possible. But I doubt that either choice in wing area (USAF or USN)
was determined based on relative maneuvering capability versus F-22.

R / John