Great Contest Location

O One pilot who didn't make it in told me, 'you either
need to be real good or real bad to get into Parowan'.
He was referring to reverse seeding and allowing anyone
within region 9 to enter regardless of seeding. I'm
not taking a position on these controversial programs,
but is this what we the rules committee had in mind?
World class pilots racing against rank beginners?
Just some food for thought,
JJ


It strikes me we want a third category of contest. Let's call it a
"national regional". One week long, run by regional rules -- multiple
classes, 92 seeding points, etc. -- but with national ranking
determining entry, and no reverse seeding in sports class (as in
sports nationals).

This seems appropriate when the goal, and success of the contest, is
to draw top pilots nationally, perhaps to a site where rank beginners
really shouldn't be flying, and/or a site that is far from the usual
pilot and volunteer base of a region. Seniors already does this by
waiver, and this seems like the right structure for Parowan.
Obviously, the choice whether to run it this way or as a regular
regional stands with the organizers, whichever way they think will
produce a more successful, fun, and safe contest.

I'm sure if there is any reason this is a bad idea, the critical minds
of r.a.s. will figure it out. If not, let's suggest it to the rules
committee.

John Cochrane

"BB" wrote in message
ups.com...
O One pilot who didn't make it in told me, 'you either
need to be real good or real bad to get into Parowan'.
He was referring to reverse seeding and allowing anyone
within region 9 to enter regardless of seeding. I'm
not taking a position on these controversial programs,
but is this what we the rules committee had in mind?
World class pilots racing against rank beginners?
Just some food for thought,
JJ


It strikes me we want a third category of contest. Let's call it a
"national regional". One week long, run by regional rules -- multiple
classes, 92 seeding points, etc. -- but with national ranking
determining entry, and no reverse seeding in sports class (as in
sports nationals).

This seems appropriate when the goal, and success of the contest, is
to draw top pilots nationally, perhaps to a site where rank beginners
really shouldn't be flying, and/or a site that is far from the usual
pilot and volunteer base of a region. Seniors already does this by
waiver, and this seems like the right structure for Parowan.
Obviously, the choice whether to run it this way or as a regular
regional stands with the organizers, whichever way they think will
produce a more successful, fun, and safe contest.

I'm sure if there is any reason this is a bad idea, the critical minds
of r.a.s. will figure it out. If not, let's suggest it to the rules
committee.

John Cochrane


I think 'Western National' sounds better than 'Regional National' but it's
a great idea.

Bill Daniels

At 18:54 03 August 2007, Bill Daniels wrote:

'BB' wrote in message
oups.com...
O One pilot who didn't make it in told me, 'you either
need to be real good or real bad to get into Parowan'.
He was referring to reverse seeding and allowing anyone
within region 9 to enter regardless of seeding. I'm
not taking a position on these controversial programs,
but is this what we the rules committee had in mind?
World class pilots racing against rank beginners?
Just some food for thought,
JJ


It strikes me we want a third category of contest.
Let's call it a
'national regional'. One week long, run by regional
rules -- multiple
classes, 92 seeding points, etc. -- but with national
ranking
determining entry, and no reverse seeding in sports
class (as in
sports nationals).

This seems appropriate when the goal, and success
of the contest, is
to draw top pilots nationally, perhaps to a site where
rank beginners
really shouldn't be flying, and/or a site that is
far from the usual
pilot and volunteer base of a region. Seniors already
does this by
waiver, and this seems like the right structure for
Parowan.
Obviously, the choice whether to run it this way or
as a regular
regional stands with the organizers, whichever way
they think will
produce a more successful, fun, and safe contest.

I'm sure if there is any reason this is a bad idea,
the critical minds
of r.a.s. will figure it out. If not, let's suggest
it to the rules
committee.

John Cochrane


I think 'Western National' sounds better than 'Regional
National' but it's
a great idea.

Bill Daniels


Out west I think Parowan is one of the better sites
for newbies - at least in terms outlanding possibilities.
The Air Force cadets had a good time this year I think
and it was good to have them - though technically they
didn't consume any entry spots.

It seems that Parowan is sapping participants from
the other western regionals, so it would be interesting
to see what the effect would be if you held a western
'national' contest there. Would Minden, Hobbs, Montague,
Moriarty, Phoenix, pop up as as the 'hot' regional.
Or you could try for the western 'national' contest
at Ely - that place is definitely not for newbies,
plus you can carry water ballast. There would be all
the operational details to work out of course.

Guess it depends on what problem you're trying to solve.

9B

Great idea, John
The problem only seems to occur at Mifflin and Parowan
+ the seniors, the rest of our regionals don't fill
up (we only had 12 at Region 11 and 2 of them were
from outside the region). We could name it; Western
Nationals, Eastern Nationals & Senior Nationals.
JJ

At 18:12 03 August 2007, Bb wrote:
O One pilot who didn't make it in told me, 'you either
need to be real good or real bad to get into Parowan'.
He was referring to reverse seeding and allowing anyone
within region 9 to enter regardless of seeding. I'm
not taking a position on these controversial programs,
but is this what we the rules committee had in mind?
World class pilots racing against rank beginners?
Just some food for thought,
JJ


It strikes me we want a third category of contest.
Let's call it a
'national regional'. One week long, run by regional
rules -- multiple
classes, 92 seeding points, etc. -- but with national
ranking
determining entry, and no reverse seeding in sports
class (as in
sports nationals).

This seems appropriate when the goal, and success of
the contest, is
to draw top pilots nationally, perhaps to a site where
rank beginners
really shouldn't be flying, and/or a site that is far
from the usual
pilot and volunteer base of a region. Seniors already
does this by
waiver, and this seems like the right structure for
Parowan.
Obviously, the choice whether to run it this way or
as a regular
regional stands with the organizers, whichever way
they think will
produce a more successful, fun, and safe contest.

I'm sure if there is any reason this is a bad idea,
the critical minds
of r.a.s. will figure it out. If not, let's suggest
it to the rules
committee.

John Cochrane

Let's face it -- flying at Parowan is a real treat for anybody.
Wouldn't it be gr8 to see multiple regions host contests there at
different times of the year -- Region 9 in June, Region 12 in August,
whoever/whenever/whatever.

Who knows, maybe the RV park will get improved after the runway, then
my crew will want to come back!

2NO

On Aug 3, 1:16 pm, Andy Blackburn
wrote:
At 18:54 03 August 2007, Bill Daniels wrote:







'BB' wrote in message
oups.com...
O One pilot who didn't make it in told me, 'you either
need to be real good or real bad to get into Parowan'.
He was referring to reverse seeding and allowing anyone
within region 9 to enter regardless of seeding. I'm
not taking a position on these controversial programs,
but is this what we the rules committee had in mind?
World class pilots racing against rank beginners?
Just some food for thought,
JJ

It strikes me we want a third category of contest.
Let's call it a
'national regional'. One week long, run by regional
rules -- multiple
classes, 92 seeding points, etc. -- but with national
ranking
determining entry, and no reverse seeding in sports
class (as in
sports nationals).

This seems appropriate when the goal, and success
of the contest, is
to draw top pilots nationally, perhaps to a site where
rank beginners
really shouldn't be flying, and/or a site that is
far from the usual
pilot and volunteer base of a region. Seniors already
does this by
waiver, and this seems like the right structure for
Parowan.
Obviously, the choice whether to run it this way or
as a regular
regional stands with the organizers, whichever way
they think will
produce a more successful, fun, and safe contest.

I'm sure if there is any reason this is a bad idea,
the critical minds
of r.a.s. will figure it out. If not, let's suggest
it to the rules
committee.

John Cochrane

I think 'Western National' sounds better than 'Regional
National' but it's
a great idea.

Bill Daniels

Out west I think Parowan is one of the better sites
for newbies - at least in terms outlanding possibilities.
The Air Force cadets had a good time this year I think
and it was good to have them - though technically they
didn't consume any entry spots.

It seems that Parowan is sapping participants from
the other western regionals, so it would be interesting
to see what the effect would be if you held a western
'national' contest there. Would Minden, Hobbs, Montague,
Moriarty, Phoenix, pop up as as the 'hot' regional.
Or you could try for the western 'national' contest
at Ely - that place is definitely not for newbies,
plus you can carry water ballast. There would be all
the operational details to work out of course.

Guess it depends on what problem you're trying to solve.

9B- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I also agree that Parowan is a wonderfull soaring site. It only has
one huge problem for contests except for Sports Class, no water. I
was also concerned about the long takeoff runs and the absence of
places to go if you had a rope problem.


Richard Pfiffner
www.craggyaero.com

As someone who has recently been on the entry level of contests (four
regional and one national in the past four years) I wonder if it might
be more fruitful to have additional learning oriented contests at the
entry level rather than creating a tier of contests between Regional
and National.

There is a lot of talk about needing more contest pilots but where is
the effort to encourage pilots to come out and try a contest, learn
contest flying and perfect their skills? It seems to me that if we are
to make an effort to create more contest opportunities we should be
doing it at the entry level rather than the upper echelon. I do
understand that one intent of 'Regional Nationals' would be to free up
'regular Regionals' for reverse seeded and lower rated pilots. Is that
correct? But is a Regional really a learning environment which will
encourage more pilots to give competition a try and/or learn to
compete?

As I have learned to compete in this sport I have been alert to find
opportunities to improve my competition and xc skills. From what I
have seen the opportunities to learn and practice competition skills
are scarce unless you happen to be a Junior. It appears to me (and
please correct me if I am wrong) that the majority of competition
camps exclude non-Junior pilots. (BTW: I am not all being critical of
the Jr. camps.) I attended a 'competition camp' here in Reg. 12 last
year and, despite the best of intentions and efforts by the sponsors,
the competition part of the camp really didn't happen. Class time was
spent with the beginning XC pilots. Thus some of the discussion was
over their heads and the majority covered basics.

There is the one contest at Air Sailing which is billed as an entry
level contest and they do a great job giving pilots an opportunity for
their first contest experience. But what about setting up training
contests east, west, and midwest? Including classes by proven contest
pilots in the morning, contest tasks in the afternoon, and then review
and critique in the evening. It might just get some of our experienced
and new XC pilots to give competition a try and provide an opportunity
for those who have flown contests to hone their skills?

John Downing