Wagons used for towing in Europe

On Aug 24, 9:01 am, "Bert Willing" bw_no_spam_ple...@tango-
whisky.com wrote:
Forgot to mention that I tow a 1000kg twin axle. Maximum tow weight for my
car is 1600kg.

Most European car manufacturers (if not all, including BMW) do offer
factory-mounted hitches here in Europe.



That's an interesting rub. I've had the same experience in
Germany. My cousin's BMW 325 wagon had the standard gooseneck
hitch. Talking to the US BMW reps results in a blank stare.

The problem I have is that several manufacturers threaten to void the
warranty if you tow with an unapproved vehicle here. On the one
hand, I'm not overly concerned with that. On the other, if you do
happen to get unlucky and get a lemon, you could be in for a real
hassle.

The Subaru has been in the lead in my short list, but I may wait and
see whether any of the TDI engines make it back for either the early
2008 or mid-season 2008 release.

Anyone specifically towing with the BMW 3 series wagon?

Why would someone even think that a BMW is a good car for towing?
The first gear is too long and all gas engines do not have enough torque
at low rpm's.

Best for towing are Common Rail Turbo Diesel cars.
These cars offer best torque at low rpm and best economy if not used
for towing. I used small cars like the VW Golf TDI, Fiat Punto TD,
Peugeot Station Wagon HDI, all with 2 liter common rail turbo diesel
engines, to tow up to 1000kg braked Cobra trailers. I drove over many
passes in Switzerland, France and Italy and newer could complain and
never had an accident, even driving with 130km/h (80 miles/h) on French
highways.

These 4cyl cars make more than 40 miles/gallon without trailer and
about 30 miles/gallon with a 900kg trailer. The newest Fiat Punto
Diesel JTD tows 1000kg braked and has makes more than 58 miles/
gallon and 35 miles/gallon with the trailer on the hook. Your wife will
even love it for shopping ;-)

My philosophy
get a good braked cobra trailer
which takes care of your glider, your back and runs very stable
tow it with a economic common rail diesel car with good suspension
and spend the money you save on fuel cost flying.

Chris
CH
__________________________________________________ ___

"Papa3" wrote in message
oups.com...
That's an interesting rub. I've had the same experience in
Germany. My cousin's BMW 325 wagon had the standard gooseneck
hitch. Talking to the US BMW reps results in a blank stare.

The problem I have is that several manufacturers threaten to void the
warranty if you tow with an unapproved vehicle here. On the one
hand, I'm not overly concerned with that. On the other, if you do
happen to get unlucky and get a lemon, you could be in for a real
hassle.

The Subaru has been in the lead in my short list, but I may wait and
see whether any of the TDI engines make it back for either the early
2008 or mid-season 2008 release.

Anyone specifically towing with the BMW 3 series wagon?

BlueCumulus wrote:
Why would someone even think that a BMW is a good car for towing?
The first gear is too long and all gas engines do not have enough torque
at low rpm's.

Best for towing are Common Rail Turbo Diesel cars.

We currently can't get diesel cars in several parts of the US, as the
current models don't meet the more stringent emissions regulations in
California and other highly populated areas. This will change in a year
or two, but meanwhile, we have to make do with gas engines...

Marc

All European Diesel cars have particle filters installed for
meeting highest emission standards. Maybe dear Arnold
Schwarzenegger should look over his shoulder back to his
home country Austria and crosscheck.

Chris

"Marc Ramsey" wrote in message
...
BlueCumulus wrote:
Why would someone even think that a BMW is a good car for towing?
The first gear is too long and all gas engines do not have enough torque
at low rpm's.

Best for towing are Common Rail Turbo Diesel cars.

We currently can't get diesel cars in several parts of the US, as the
current models don't meet the more stringent emissions regulations in
California and other highly populated areas. This will change in a year
or two, but meanwhile, we have to make do with gas engines...

Marc

BlueCumulus wrote:
All European Diesel cars have particle filters installed for
meeting highest emission standards. Maybe dear Arnold
Schwarzenegger should look over his shoulder back to his
home country Austria and crosscheck.

The more difficult issue is nitrogen oxide emissions.

Marc

On Sep 3, 1:29 am, "BlueCumulus" wrote:
All European Diesel cars have particle filters installed for
meeting highest emission standards. Maybe dear Arnold
Schwarzenegger should look over his shoulder back to his
home country Austria and crosscheck.

Chris

"Marc Ramsey" wrote in message

...



BlueCumulus wrote:
Why would someone even think that a BMW is a good car for towing?
The first gear is too long and all gas engines do not have enough torque
at low rpm's.

Best for towing are Common Rail Turbo Diesel cars.

We currently can't get diesel cars in several parts of the US, as the
current models don't meet the more stringent emissions regulations in
California and other highly populated areas. This will change in a year
or two, but meanwhile, we have to make do with gas engines...

Marc- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In US the problem are not cars but dirty diesel fuel. That is why
diesel cars are not allowed in many parts of the country. It is our
big oil companies fault.

On Sep 2, 6:48 pm, "BlueCumulus" wrote:
Why would someone even think that a BMW is a good car for towing?
The first gear is too long and all gas engines do not have enough torque
at low rpm's.

Best for towing are Common Rail Turbo Diesel cars.
These cars offer best torque at low rpm and best economy if not used
for towing. I used small cars like the VW Golf TDI, Fiat Punto TD,
Peugeot Station Wagon HDI, all with 2 liter common rail turbo diesel
engines, to tow up to 1000kg braked Cobra trailers. I drove over many
passes in Switzerland, France and Italy and newer could complain and
never had an accident, even driving with 130km/h (80 miles/h) on French
highways.

These 4cyl cars make more than 40 miles/gallon without trailer and
about 30 miles/gallon with a 900kg trailer. The newest Fiat Punto
Diesel JTD tows 1000kg braked and has makes more than 58 miles/
gallon and 35 miles/gallon with the trailer on the hook. Your wife will
even love it for shopping ;-)

My philosophy
get a good braked cobra trailer
which takes care of your glider, your back and runs very stable
tow it with a economic common rail diesel car with good suspension
and spend the money you save on fuel cost flying.

Chris
CH
__________________________________________________ ___

"Papa3" wrote in message

oups.com...



That's an interesting rub. I've had the same experience in
Germany. My cousin's BMW 325 wagon had the standard gooseneck
hitch. Talking to the US BMW reps results in a blank stare.

The problem I have is that several manufacturers threaten to void the
warranty if you tow with an unapproved vehicle here. On the one
hand, I'm not overly concerned with that. On the other, if you do
happen to get unlucky and get a lemon, you could be in for a real
hassle.

The Subaru has been in the lead in my short list, but I may wait and
see whether any of the TDI engines make it back for either the early
2008 or mid-season 2008 release.

Anyone specifically towing with the BMW 3 series wagon?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yo Chris,

What makes you think Diesel and BMW are mutually exclusive. I
understand that BMW is introducing Diesels in the US for the 2008
model year; reviews I've read on these vehicles in Europe have been
very impressive indeed. Anyone out there know if the 325xi wagon is
available in Diesel engine in EU Land?

P3

BMW318d Touring for EURO 28950
VW Passat Tdi Touring EURO 28350
Peugeot 307 Hdi Touring EURO 20950

I bought the Peugeot because it costs EU 8000 less than a German car.
Second I would never buy a back-wheel driven car, because they are the
first needing chains in the snow. In wet and slippery conditions traction
of front-wheel driven cars is better as well.

you are right.
There is not much choice in the US - no Diesel Technology - I checked
the internet. Reason for that are the changed NOx limits in the US which
applied from 2004 on.
http://www.umweltdaten.de/publikationen/fpdf-l/3021.pdf English version
(very informative)

Thanks to the lowered limits in the US the motor companies have now
developed NOx absorbers and catalyzed particle filter systems which
should limit diesel emissions below the US limits. Euro5 norms will limit
NOx to 0.08g/km and particles to 0.0025g/km in 2010,
which will be compatible with US norms, which actually limit
NOx to 0.043g/km and particles to 0.0061g/km.

Chris
CH
__________________________________________________ ___

"Papa3" wrote in message
ps.com...
Yo Chris,
What makes you think Diesel and BMW are mutually exclusive. I
understand that BMW is introducing Diesels in the US for the 2008
model year; reviews I've read on these vehicles in Europe have been
very impressive indeed. Anyone out there know if the 325xi wagon is
available in Diesel engine in EU Land?
P3

(corrected)

BMW318d Touring for EURO 28950
VW Passat Tdi Touring EURO 28350
Peugeot 307 Hdi Touring EURO 20950

I bought the Peugeot because it costs EU 8000 less than a German car.
Second I would never buy a back-wheel driven car, because they are the
first needing chains in the snow. In wet and slippery conditions traction
of front-wheel driven cars is better as well.

you are right.
There is not much choice in the US - no Diesel Technology - I checked
the internet. Reason for that are the changed NOx limits in the US which
applied from 2004 on.
http://www.umweltdaten.de/publikationen/fpdf-l/3021.pdf English version
(very informative)

Thanks to the lowered limits in the US the motor companies have now
developed NOx absorbers and catalyzed particle filter systems which
should limit diesel emissions below the US limits. Euro5 norms will limit
NOx to 0.08g/km and particles to 0.0025g/km in 2010.
This will be compatible with actual US particle limits of 0.0061g/km
but will not yet comply with the US NOx target of 0.043g/km.

Today's European diesel cars with particle filters have no problems with
the US particle limits but exceed the NOx limits by a factor 10.

Chris
CH
__________________________________________________ ___

"Papa3" wrote in message
ps.com...
Yo Chris,
What makes you think Diesel and BMW are mutually exclusive. I
understand that BMW is introducing Diesels in the US for the 2008
model year; reviews I've read on these vehicles in Europe have been
very impressive indeed. Anyone out there know if the 325xi wagon is
available in Diesel engine in EU Land?
P3