Let's Get Real Here.

"Bret Ludwig" wrote

Some people this heavy are not obese as muscular and huge, such as
football players. With exceptions such as "Refrigerator" Perry,
football players are not fat. Yet they weigh a lot. There are 6'4" 300
lb body builders who are considered "Greek Adonis" and not "fat".
Airplanes should be designed to comfortably accomodate NFL offensive
linesmen.

At what expense? Make all trainers capable of hauling weight as a T-34? I
thought you wanted to see less expensive planes?

I don't want to pay to haul around offensive linemen. Even then, your
argument is weak. You and I both know damn well that you are talking mainly
about the obese average height lard ass.

A NFL player can afford to go rent (or buy) a fleet of warbirds, or other
4-6 passenger planes. Let them. I can not.
--
Jim in NC

Bret Ludwig wrote:
On Aug 25, 10:16 pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"Bret Ludwig" wrote

3. The average person who can afford an airplane in America now
weighs upwards of 250 lbs and some top 300. Can two 300 pounders fly
this thing? I know CFIs who tell me they are starting Denny the
Dentist in Skylanes now because they are too fat to be comfortable in
the Skyhawk.
If they weigh that much, they need to go on an immediate diet, forget sport
planes, or take up mud bog racing instead of flying.

Get real. The person that weighs 250 pounds, is obese, unless they are very
tall. They need to worry about losing weight before they die, instead of
flying airplanes that are too small for them.
--

Some people this heavy are not obese as muscular and huge, such as
football players. With exceptions such as "Refrigerator" Perry,
football players are not fat. Yet they weigh a lot. There are 6'4" 300
lb body builders who are considered "Greek Adonis" and not "fat".
Airplanes should be designed to comfortably accomodate NFL offensive
linesmen.

Not. Designing for less than 0.1% of the passenger population would be
incredibly stupid. That would be almost as stupid as suggesting that
this should be the case.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote

Not. Designing for less than 0.1% of the passenger population would be
incredibly stupid. That would be almost as stupid as suggesting that this
should be the case.

But this is Bret making the suggestion, after all! ;-)
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
"Bret Ludwig" wrote

3. The average person who can afford an airplane in America now
weighs upwards of 250 lbs and some top 300. Can two 300 pounders fly
this thing? I know CFIs who tell me they are starting Denny the
Dentist in Skylanes now because they are too fat to be comfortable in
the Skyhawk.

If they weigh that much, they need to go on an immediate diet, forget sport
planes, or take up mud bog racing instead of flying.

Get real. The person that weighs 250 pounds, is obese, unless they are very
tall. They need to worry about losing weight before they die, instead of
flying airplanes that are too small for them.

Thank you Dr. Morgan for ignoring muscular types. I knew a C-130
pilot that was quite heavy, but was solid muscle. Didn't they teach you
in medical school that muscle weighs more than fat?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Morgans wrote:
"Bret Ludwig" wrote
Some people this heavy are not obese as muscular and huge, such as
football players. With exceptions such as "Refrigerator" Perry,
football players are not fat. Yet they weigh a lot. There are 6'4" 300
lb body builders who are considered "Greek Adonis" and not "fat".
Airplanes should be designed to comfortably accomodate NFL offensive
linesmen.

At what expense? Make all trainers capable of hauling weight as a T-34? I
thought you wanted to see less expensive planes?

I don't want to pay to haul around offensive linemen. Even then, your
argument is weak. You and I both know damn well that you are talking mainly
about the obese average height lard ass.

A NFL player can afford to go rent (or buy) a fleet of warbirds, or other
4-6 passenger planes. Let them. I can not.

Don't let anyone accuse you have a sensitive side.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Roger (K8RI) wrote:
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 00:52:33 GMT, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote:

"Bret Ludwig" wrote in message
ups.com...

1. How much cheaper is this thing going to be to produce than a
Skyhawk? ...
2. Where are they going to make this thing?
I think that we can safely leave #1 and #2 to Cessna management.
3. The average person who can afford an airplane in America now
weighs upwards of 250 lbs and some top 300.
To me, this is the real issue. The problem is not just with Cessna. other
2-seat LSAs also can't hold two real-world pilots.

Since the max 1320 pound gross weight maximum of the average LSA is set
more by the rule book than by engineering and physics, one must suspect that
these aircraft are being marketed with a wink. They are actually perfectly
capable of carrying more payload than they are certified for.

Can two 300 pounders fly this thing?

Lordy, two 300 pounders in the front seats of a Cherokee would be too
much. What 4 passenger production GA plane could take two 300 pounder
in the front seats and not be out of CG?

A 182, for one. For that matter, our old 177RG, if you threw some weight
in back for balance.

"Dan" wrote

Thank you Dr. Morgan for ignoring muscular types. I knew a C-130 pilot
that was quite heavy, but was solid muscle. Didn't they teach you in
medical school that muscle weighs more than fat?

No need to get sarcastic; I know that. I'm only responding to the post. He
was not talking about muscular pilots, in his original post. Next thing you
will tell me is that NFL players are not fat. BS, to that, too. They are
also muscular, but very few are not carrying around some pretty substantial
body fat, too. Very few.

How tall was this C-130 pilot, Dan? Well over 6 foot, I'll bet. We know
that Bret was not talking about muscular types in his original post, don't
we?

In case you forgot the original offensive post, I'll quote it for you.

Quote: "The average person who can afford an airplane in America now
weighs upwards of 250 lbs and some top 300. Can two 300 pounders fly
this thing? I know CFIs who tell me they are starting Denny the
Dentist in Skylanes now because they are too fat to be comfortable in
the Skyhawk."
Unquote.

Did you notice the wording he used? Too fat to be comfortable.

I would be uncomfortable with a 300 pounder in 42 inch wide airplane, too.
They are going to be way over on my side of the airplane, and on my seat.

You want to be ****ed at someone, be ****ed at Bret for starting this
ridiculous thread, and for us for falling for his troll bait. That is what
it is; no more, no less.

A 6 foot tall person, in well above average physical shape, with low body
fat will go about 225, tops. They won't have most of their weight spilling
over the sides of their seats, either.

It would be nice to have airplanes that would lift any weight pilots with
ease. It isn't reality, plain and simple. Sport planes in specific have to
be a certain weight to be able to be safe.

Sorry if this all does not fit with your picture of reality, but life sucks,
too.

If you fall in the category of being well above the maximum healthy height
to weight chart, you should do something about it. You will be more
comfortable, more healthy and have more energy. It isn't impossible to do.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
"Dan" wrote

Thank you Dr. Morgan for ignoring muscular types. I knew a C-130 pilot
that was quite heavy, but was solid muscle. Didn't they teach you in
medical school that muscle weighs more than fat?

No need to get sarcastic; I know that. I'm only responding to the post. He
was not talking about muscular pilots, in his original post. Next thing you
will tell me is that NFL players are not fat. BS, to that, too. They are
also muscular, but very few are not carrying around some pretty substantial
body fat, too. Very few.

How tall was this C-130 pilot, Dan? Well over 6 foot, I'll bet.

No, I'm 6' 2" and he was shorter than me. To give you an idea what he
was like he'd trim the yoke all the way forward or aft and hold it in
neutral while flying. I pity anyone who took over from him in the other
seat.

We know
that Bret was not talking about muscular types in his original post, don't
we?

I ignore luwdig. What you said was no better than what he said.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 17:21:57 -0700, Bret Ludwig
wrote:


Can two 300 pounders fly this thing?

Lordy, two 300 pounders in the front seats of a Cherokee would be too
much. What 4 passenger production GA plane could take two 300 pounder
in the front seats and not be out of CG?

I'm guessing MAYBE a Navion.
But I'd want to check the POH carefully before trying it!



T-6,or any mil trainer besides maybe a old Ryan. Even a T-34 will
accomodate as heavy a pilot as will fit.

Two 300 pounders? These are neither light sport, or 4 passenger
aircraft though.

Bzzzzt. A 1958 182, normally equipped and with full fuel is 4" forward of
the cg limit with 2 300# in the front seats. Even if you max out the
baggage aft limit, it doesn't come back into the envelope until almost all
of the fuel is burned.

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford


"Rich Ahrens" wrote in message
...



A 182, for one. For that matter, our old 177RG, if you threw some weight
in back for balance.