What GA needs

Maybe because they are overwhelmed with things to keep them entertained,
24x7, and we live in a socity in which challenging yourself is not
encouraged.

I think the armies of kids cramming for the SATs, busting their butts
to get precious scholarships to get them through college without a
debt, etc, are challenging themselves just fine. I don't know how old
you are, but I hazard to guess that kids today are growing up in a
more competitive environment than any time in modern history.

It's not challenge. If anything, it's risk/reward.

Oh, and by the way, you can kill yourself in an airplane, which, to my
knowledge, has not happened with an iPod. Could be wrong on that.

One key factor is the antiquated airplanes we fly.

That might be part of it, but I'd say it was pretty much insignificant. The
newer 172s and 182s are a good foundation, and even their costs are minor
for a generation that thinks nothing of $150 sneakers, a $20000 Honda Civic
with fart mufflers, $300 a wheel rims and other trim "features".

Wha? that $150 pair of sneakers is going to get you what, 3/4 of an
hour in a new 172? How many sneakers do you think kids today are
buying? My flying habit, at its max has been about 100 hours a year in
30-year-old 172's and Cherokees. That's been roughly $10,000/yr all
told. That's the same cost as the Honda, *gone* in two years. At least
with the Honda, you've got a car at the end of two years.

Look, I *love* aviation. I suspect you do, too. But I don't think we
can build aviation's future on people who just love airplanes. You
need to get people who, well, just "kinda like" airplanes and might
even find them useful sometimes.

Possibly our own Mxmaniac is more representative of the current generation
than we realize.

He is somewhat, and I believe I am somewhat. I don't know mxmanic's
background. I suspect he works in the computer business. I am a
computer engineer (I don't program computers, I design their chips).
I've worked hard to be skilled at my craft. In fact, I like becoming
skilled at crafts. That's a lot of the fun for me -- hence aviation!

But I struggle to find time and cash to keep this hobby up. Lately, I
have rediscovered digital photography. I can't help but notice that it
also is a skill and craft, with plenty of technical stuff to nail
down, and even at its most expensive, it's a lot cheaper than
aviation. And my wife does not worry about me getting killed taking
photos. There's an appeal to that.

-- dave j

"Dave J" wrote in message
ps.com...

Maybe because they are overwhelmed with things to keep them entertained,
24x7, and we live in a socity in which challenging yourself is not
encouraged.

I think the armies of kids cramming for the SATs, busting their butts
to get precious scholarships to get them through college without a
debt, etc, are challenging themselves just fine.

Really? How many is that? How many cramming for a test that's been dumbed
down annually for thirty years?

I don't know how old
you are

52...been there.

, but I hazard to guess that kids today are growing up in a
more competitive environment than any time in modern history.

A couple generations ago, half of kids went to college. Now everyone has to
go, even though few are really qualfiied for a college curriculum. Note,
too, how many college seniors can't pass a test that junior high kids did
not too long ago.

As for "competitive", that's the last things are faced with - every one gets
a brass ring regardless of capability or effort.


It's not challenge. If anything, it's risk/reward.

And the challenge is applying and dealing with those risk factors.


Oh, and by the way, you can kill yourself in an airplane, which, to my
knowledge, has not happened with an iPod. Could be wrong on that.

Well, you can certainly cook your brain matter.


One key factor is the antiquated airplanes we fly.

That might be part of it, but I'd say it was pretty much insignificant.
The
newer 172s and 182s are a good foundation, and even their costs are minor
for a generation that thinks nothing of $150 sneakers, a $20000 Honda
Civic
with fart mufflers, $300 a wheel rims and other trim "features".

Wha? that $150 pair of sneakers is going to get you what, 3/4 of an
hour in a new 172?

Around here, a two year old 172 goes for $105, wet.

How many sneakers do you think kids today are
buying?

A lot more than they did when a pair of sneakers cost $15 and a 172 went
$19/hr.

My flying habit, at its max has been about 100 hours a year in
30-year-old 172's and Cherokees. That's been roughly $10,000/yr all
told. That's the same cost as the Honda, *gone* in two years. At least
with the Honda, you've got a car at the end of two years.

You know, I _think_ you just showed the attitude that may be behind the
dearth of new students.


Look, I *love* aviation. I suspect you do, too. But I don't think we
can build aviation's future on people who just love airplanes.

Practical allpication helps. I've average 350 hours/year the past nine
years. That's because I operate my business not as a local endeavor, but
across about half a million suare miles. Couldn't do that by car, by
airline, or even by the regionals. In sum, it's gives me a hell of an
advantage over my competitors (there's that competition thing again) who
want to still in their backwater towns and wait for business to knock on
their doors. Only way it could be done is by GA airplne, but that vehilcle
has to be very capable, reliable/dependable, and FAST.

You
need to get people who, well, just "kinda like" airplanes and might
even find them useful sometimes.

As above, the USEFUL is the key; there are , as I pointed out, so many other
"hobbies" to participate in that are cheaper and, to someone NOT an airplane
lover, jsut as rewarding.

Yet, how rewarding is playing X-BOX?


Possibly our own Mxmaniac is more representative of the current
generation
than we realize.

He is somewhat, and I believe I am somewhat. I don't know mxmanic's
background. I suspect he works in the computer business. I am a
computer engineer (I don't program computers, I design their chips).
I've worked hard to be skilled at my craft. In fact, I like becoming
skilled at crafts. That's a lot of the fun for me -- hence aviation!

But I struggle to find time and cash to keep this hobby up.

You just hit on the major facet: COST. The other key word is: HOBBY.


--
Matt Barrow
Performance Homes, LLC.
Cheyenne, WY

Matt,

I think you make some good points about education, and it is true that
more kids go to college than ever before. But there have always been
mediocre students and good students, people with varying talent,
energy, and skill. The mediocre today are perhaps going to school and
"passing" when in the past they would have done something else, and
"failed.

BUT, among all the good and bad students, there are also many more
good students, and the number of slots at good schools is not much
greater than in the past. Competition to get into elite universities
is more intense than ever.

The reason I think that's remotely relevant is simply because the
people who are going to learn to fly are, well, the above averages,
and they really do have more pressure on their time than in the past.


My flying habit, at its max has been about 100 hours a year in
30-year-old 172's and Cherokees. That's been roughly $10,000/yr all
told. That's the same cost as the Honda, *gone* in two years. At least
with the Honda, you've got a car at the end of two years.

You know, I _think_ you just showed the attitude that may be behind the
dearth of new students.

I am not sure I follow what you mean. That people are more acquisitive
than they used to be? More into "stuff" and less into "experiences?"


You just hit on the major facet: COST. The other key word is: HOBBY.

We're in violent agreement.

-- dave j

"Dave J" wrote in message
ups.com...

Matt,

I think you make some good points about education, and it is true that
more kids go to college than ever before. But there have always been
mediocre students and good students, people with varying talent,
energy, and skill. The mediocre today are perhaps going to school and
"passing" when in the past they would have done something else, and
"failed.

BUT, among all the good and bad students, there are also many more
good students, and the number of slots at good schools is not much
greater than in the past.

I don't how to qualify "good students", but I notice man college people,
even at Ivy League schools, are woefully lacking on any number of subjects.

Competition to get into elite universities
is more intense than ever.

Yet they keep lowering their standards. The VERY elite schools have not
caved in, but we're talking about no more than the top couple percent.

Read some of the tests and surveys and it's shocking and embarrassing how
dumbed down our schools have become over the past 20-30 years. I'm talking
colleges and universities; the elementary and high schools are even worse.

Dave J writes:

The reason I think that's remotely relevant is simply because the
people who are going to learn to fly are, well, the above averages,
and they really do have more pressure on their time than in the past.

No, the people who are going to learn to fly are those with a very intense
interest in flying. They may or may not be above average. Usually they will
be average.

Mxsmanic wrote:

[]
No, the people who are going to learn to fly are those with a very intense
interest in flying. They may or may not be above average. Usually they will
be average.

Are you learning to fly, Mixi?

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"He can't be as stupid as he looks, but nevertheless he probably
is quite a stupid man." Richard Dawkins on Pres. Bush"

David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*) writes:

Are you learning to fly, Mixi?

Yes, but not in a way that would satisfy government regulators, nor in a way
that involves an actual airplane.

Mxsmanic wrote:

David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*) writes:

Are you learning to fly, Mixi?

Yes, but not in a way that would satisfy government regulators, nor in a way
that involves an actual airplane.



--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"He can't be as stupid as he looks, but nevertheless he probably
is quite a stupid man." Richard Dawkins on Pres. Bush"

Mxsmanic wrote:
David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*) writes:

Are you learning to fly, Mixi?

Yes, but not in a way that would satisfy government regulators, nor in a way
that involves an actual airplane.
BZZZ wrong answer, your not learning to fly, your learning to play a game

Matt Barrow writes:

Around here, a two year old 172 goes for $105, wet.

So that's still only 1.5 hours for the cost of a pair of expensive sneakers.
The sneakers will last for months or years; once that 1.5 hours of flying time
is gone, there's nothing.

You know, I _think_ you just showed the attitude that may be behind the
dearth of new students.

It's a pretty reasonable attitude. It's not rational to throw money out the
window. Everyone wants value for his dollar.