What's gonna happen to CAP?

"Newps" wrote in message
. ..


Neil Gould wrote:




I was in CAP as a teenager, due to my interests in aviation and lack of
money to pursue it other ways. Although there was too much marching to
suit me, I agree that it is a worthy organization with an important
mission.

The question at hand is whether the new transponders will really reduce
the need for S&R?




Here in Montana we've reduced the need for CAP to zero. We handle SAR
ourselves.

Who is "ourselves"?

Matt Barrow wrote:

Here in Montana we've reduced the need for CAP to zero. We handle SAR
ourselves.


Who is "ourselves"?


Montana Aeronautics.

So you monitor the satalites that recieve the ELT data not USAF? Last I
heard there is still a Montana Wing.


"Newps" wrote in message
. ..


Matt Barrow wrote:

Here in Montana we've reduced the need for CAP to zero. We handle SAR
ourselves.


Who is "ourselves"?


Montana Aeronautics.

In article ,
R. Gardner wrote:
So you monitor the satalites that recieve the ELT data not USAF? Last I
heard there is still a Montana Wing.

USAF has a list of who to call on a state by state basis. IIRC,
Washington also doesn't use CAP for air search, preferring to do
it themselves.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

While I was in CAP in Washington, the State Aeronautics Commission (SAC) was
the primary contact for Air Force Rescue Coordination Center (AFRCC).
However, unless the area was well populated the SAC turned the actual
execution of the search over to CAP. SAC acted as a dotted line reporting
point for CAP once that happened. For searches in the Seattle basin, the
local PD helicopters were used since these were typically ELTs. For searches
outside the populated areas, CAP carried the ball.

I sounds to me like newps is a bit resentful of CAP based on his comments
about "silly rules" and "nationally administered organization" among others.


--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas
"John Clear" wrote in message
...
In article ,
R. Gardner wrote:
So you monitor the satalites that recieve the ELT data not USAF? Last I
heard there is still a Montana Wing.

USAF has a list of who to call on a state by state basis. IIRC,
Washington also doesn't use CAP for air search, preferring to do
it themselves.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

R. Gardner wrote:
So you monitor the satalites that recieve the ELT data not USAF? Last I
heard there is still a Montana Wing.

No we don't monitor satellites. The vast majority of ELT reports
received is not by the satellites, never has been. Almost all reports
of ELT's is by other aircraft and stations that monitor 121.5/243.0
constantly, such as we do in the tower. Should a satellite receive an
ELT before we here in Montana find out about it that report is sent to
Salt Lake Center(Seattle Center in the NW corner of the state). They
contact Montana Aeronautics who then begins the search. We are one of a
few states that handle SAR by ourselves, local people do a much better
job of SAR when the organization is properly set up than a national
group who in most cases don't know the terrain like we do. There may be
a Montana Wing of CAP but if so they are invisible. In the 15 years I
have lived here, the last 10 as an aircraft owner going to all sorts of
fly-ins/airshows I haven't even seen them parking airplanes.







"Newps" wrote in message
. ..


Matt Barrow wrote:


Here in Montana we've reduced the need for CAP to zero. We handle SAR
ourselves.


Who is "ourselves"?


Montana Aeronautics.

On Sep 20, 4:13 pm, Newps wrote:
R. Gardner wrote:
So you monitor the satalites that recieve the ELT data not USAF? Last I
heard there is still a Montana Wing.

No we don't monitor satellites. The vast majority of ELT reports
received is not by the satellites, never has been. Almost all reports
of ELT's is by other aircraft and stations that monitor 121.5/243.0
constantly, such as we do in the tower. Should a satellite receive an
ELT before we here in Montana find out about it that report is sent to
Salt Lake Center(Seattle Center in the NW corner of the state). They
contact Montana Aeronautics who then begins the search. We are one of a
few states that handle SAR by ourselves, local people do a much better
job of SAR when the organization is properly set up than a national
group who in most cases don't know the terrain like we do. There may be
a Montana Wing of CAP but if so they are invisible. In the 15 years I
have lived here, the last 10 as an aircraft owner going to all sorts of
fly-ins/airshows I haven't even seen them parking airplanes.

In CAP we always have sat triangulation information before we launch.
I assume that the initial report was also sat. In this context I'm not
sure what you mean by a "national organization". Pilots in CAP rarely
are searching more than a couple hundred miles from their home. CAP
planes are located in local GA airports, we don't launch from any
central location.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:



In CAP we always have sat triangulation information before we launch.
I assume that the initial report was also sat. In this context I'm not
sure what you mean by a "national organization". Pilots in CAP rarely
are searching more than a couple hundred miles from their home. CAP
planes are located in local GA airports, we don't launch from any
central location.




We are locally run and organized, local being statewide. No silly rules
that I've seen
CAP have. The state is divided up into sectors. Each sector has a
designated boss who gets
the call that a plane is missing. He can be in the air in less than an
hour. Satellite
info not needed/necessary before planes are flying. Other aircraft
brought in as desired/necessary. One problem I have seen with CAP
pilots is they are much less experienced than the guys that do the SAR
here. We get the Wyoming CAP guys up here a couple times a month and
the way they talk on the radio does not inspire confidence. Our guys
flying SAR have multi thousands of hours flying GA airplanes all over
the state and they know the terrain like the back of their hand.

"Newps" wrote in message
...

We get the Wyoming CAP guys up here a couple times a month and the way
they talk on the radio does not inspire confidence.

Oh, THANKS!!
--
Matt Barrow
Performance Homes, LLC.
Cheyenne, WY

On Sep 20, 5:29 pm, Newps wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:

In CAP we always have sat triangulation information before we launch.
I assume that the initial report was also sat. In this context I'm not
sure what you mean by a "national organization". Pilots in CAP rarely
are searching more than a couple hundred miles from their home. CAP
planes are located in local GA airports, we don't launch from any
central location.

We are locally run and organized, local being statewide. No silly rules
that I've seen
CAP have. The state is divided up into sectors. Each sector has a
designated boss who gets
the call that a plane is missing.

Yes, we call these "IC"s in CAP and they coordinate the air and ground
crews.

He can be in the air in less than an
hour.

Our goal is similar, we generally try to have crews in the air w/i in
hour of notication unless the information suggests a UDF (ground) crew
would be more effective.

Satellite
info not needed/necessary before planes are flying.

Sat info for us is free so we don't turn it down. It allows us to
brief on the location to head towards. Once airborne our onboard
equipment listens for ELTs on 3 different freq (including 406). We
also have onboard VHF radios to communicate with the IC in real time.

One problem I have seen with CAP
pilots is they are much less experienced than the guys that do the SAR
here.

Maybe that is regional. Many of us are CFIs and we even have some
Vietnam era FAC pilots. Many of us are also flying modern G1000
aircraft that also allow photos to be transmitted in real time to
ground crews.

Our guys
flying SAR have multi thousands of hours flying GA airplanes all over
the state and they know the terrain like the back of their hand.

Our pilots are also regional. As you can imagine California has
arguably the most challenging terrain in the U.S. with a combination
of the Sierra's, high deserts and large bodies of water.

-Robert