Ouch!!! Wet rates keep going up!

I think others on this group recently established that all you need is a
minimum wage job to be able to afford to own and fly a Piper Pathfinder. You
can even fly it all across the country, covering distances as far as Iowa to
North Carolina! My guess is you make too much, that's why you're finding
rentals too expensive. Give up your current job and get one that pays less
so you can continue flying with no worries. Owning and making minimum wage
is definitely the way to go if someone earning minimum wage can afford a
nice machine like a Pathfinder!

As with most people who have never owned and operated a family
business, you forgot the caveat that states: "...And you and your wife
will have to work every waking hour in order to pull it off."

The trade-offs are stark. The rewards are many -- as are the costs.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:



As with most people who have never owned and operated a family
business, you forgot the caveat that states: "...And you and your wife
will have to work every waking hour in order to pull it off."

The trade-offs are stark. The rewards are many -- as are the costs.


You guys work way too hard for the return. I know you can't help it,
most people in a small business of their own do likewise.

"Newps" wrote:


As with most people who have never owned and operated a family
business, you forgot the caveat that states: "...And you and your wife
will have to work every waking hour in order to pull it off."

The trade-offs are stark. The rewards are many -- as are the costs.


You guys work way too hard for the return.

Mmm...no. Working every waking hour in order to get your own business going
is exhilirating. Plus:

Not having to report to a boss is priceless.

Not having to ask permission to fly on business is priceless.

Driving up every morning to a business you built yourself is priceless.

Betting everything you have on your own abilities and seeing it pay off is
priceless.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

I'm absolutely admiring Jay and Mary for working as hard as they do, and I
think it's wonderful that they are making a success of their hotel. We've
stayed at the hotel once and thoroughly enjoyed it. We've talked with Jay
and Mary at EAA and think they are wonderful people. I'm quite sure they've
put a lot into their business and continue to do so.
But I still am convinced Jay's saying they've worked for less than minimum
wage is a gross exaggeration. It wouldn't matter to me except that it seems
common for many people to way overestimate the living conditions and
lifestyles of those who truly are making minimum wage, and I think Jay's
claims of poverty exacerbate this. It does a great disservice to those who
really are living in poverty and I find it to be something I can't just
ignore.
So, let's do some math. Jay says Mary hasn't taken a salary at all, but
just for grins and giggles lets include her. Taking Jay at his word that
they work every waking minute, lets see what that would bring them. Two
people working 16 hour days,, six days a week would, at the minimum wage
rate prior to this past July, add up thusly:
16 hours X 6 days per week X $5.15 per hour times two people, equals
$988.80 per week, multiply that times 52 equals $51417.60 per year. If you
divide that by 2080 hours (what one hourly person works in a year, 40 hours
a week) this works out to the equivalent of 24.72 an hour for one person. I
make $23.11 which isn't too far off. In a standard 40 hour week, after 19
percent is taken off the top for my 401k, and after deductions for taxes,
medical and dental insurance, I'm left with $504 a week. Multiplying that
by 52 gives us take-home of $26,208 a year, averaging $2184 a month.

Jay will have to furnish us with his living expenses if he cares to, but I
have no qualms about sharing mine.
We own a 1400 square foot ranch house which we paid $114,000 four years ago.
Our mortgage plus escrow is $1000 per month. We have basic cable only, which
costs us $25 a month. We pay monthly $34 for my wife's cell phone (which
we'd love to cancel but we're locked into a contract), $161 for gas and
electric, $67 for our phone and DSL, an average of $52 for water, $67 for
insurance for my 97 Ford Escort and for my wife Janet's 99 Saturn, and an
average of $606 a month for groceries. Janet also has a student loan out
which cost us $137 a month. Our expenses come to $2149, versus a
straight-time net income of $2184. Who was it that implied I waste too much
money at Starbucks? If you want to know, we don't go there, nor do we spend
money renting videos, going to movies or anything else. We spend some of my
overtime money on going out to eat, maybe twice a month, and take an
occasional day trip in the car, usually someplace local. We buy most of our
clothes at Goodwill and other thrift stores. I'm saving most of my overtime
money toward maybe someday buying an airplane, perhaps a Piper Tomahawk,
assuming Janet can find a full-time job that pays enough that we can afford
the ownership costs. We've got over $14,000 in the bank now. Who was it that
said I should ask Jay how he manages?

Since we don't know if Jay invests 19 percent (other than back into his
hotel) lets add that back in. I'm not so good at math, so let's guesstimate
about $130 a week, which of course would be taxable so I don't know what
the final amount would be, but I'm thinking that's fairly close. So Jay
and Mary would have about $630 a week to pay all their expenses, including
their home, utilities, teenager stuff, and their Piper Pathfinder's
expenses. I don't have any kids at home, and I sure can't afford to own an
airplane. Maybe Jay and Mary's airplane is paid for, as is their house. But
from everything I read about annuals, hangar rents, fuel prices (autogas
included ) and then to read about Jay and Mary's many flying adventures
including hotel stays tells me that his claims of poverty are just plain
exaggeration. I only wish we had the poverty Jay has!
As I said, I greatly admire the courage it took Jay and Mary to buy that
hotel, and I'm totally impressed with all the efforts they've put into it.
I just wish he'd quit claiming poverty, it just isn't so.
Scott Wilson

wrote in message
. net...
I'm absolutely admiring Jay and Mary for working as hard as they do,
.......snip.....
Maybe Jay and Mary's airplane is paid for, as is their house. But
from everything I read about annuals, hangar rents, fuel prices (autogas
included ) and then to read about Jay and Mary's many flying adventures
including hotel stays tells me that his claims of poverty are just plain
exaggeration. I only wish we had the poverty Jay has!


They probably aren’t making a fortune with the hotel. I suspect one thing
which helps Jay and Mary afford their plane is that they probably write
most, if not all, of the cost off as a business expense. This would
include fuel, hanger, trips, etc.

From a business perspective, maybe Jay can gives us tax tips on airplane
expenses.

Writing off the expenses may be what they're doing, but another way of
looking at it is putting money they could (should) have taken home from the
business as income into the airplane instead. Nothing wrong with that, but
it of course puts them above the minimum wage. I don't at all begrudge them
their airplane or many wondrous adventures in it. And after spending that
much on the airplane and ploughing so much money back into the hotel it
probably does FEEL like minimum wage or poverty. But there ain't no one
making minimum wage who can afford to fly a private airplane all over the
country.
Scott Wilson

But there ain't no one
making minimum wage who can afford to fly a private airplane all over the
country.

So, do you think we are so dense, that you think you need to keep pointing
it out, again and again?

Give it a rest!

Give us some credit, for not being dense.
--
Jim in NC

Spoken like someone who ain't been there, done that, and got the t-shirt.
You ever started a business from scratch, Scott? Been at the phone 24/7?
Worked a 12 hour day and then turned it all around to work an 18 hour day
the next day?

Jay and Mary have been doing it for 8 or 10 years now; Gail and I have been
doing it for 35 years. You wanna come tell us how it is done?

You don't have a clue.

Jim



But there ain't no one
making minimum wage who can afford to fly a private airplane all over the
country.
Scott Wilson

You ever started a business from scratch, Scott? Been at the phone 24/7?
Worked a 12 hour day and then turned it all around to work an 18 hour day
the next day?

Jay and Mary have been doing it for 8 or 10 years now; Gail and I have been
doing it for 35 years. You wanna come tell us how it is done?

You don't have a clue.

I wasn't going to dignify this absurd thread with a response, but your
post hit it right on the money.

You are just a bit off on the estimate, however, Jim. This is the
third business I've started from scratch (albeit the first one that
Mary has been involved with) since 1990. This is by far the riskiest
venture, yet, but it's also been the most rewarding. (Although not
financially, just yet.)

People who haven't done this sort of thing simply can't understand the
number of hours that go into such an endeavor -- they've never put all
their chips on red, and spun the wheel. All they remember are the fun
flights I love to write about.

They don't understand what working for free means. What it means to
hang everything out in the wind, balls and all, hoping that the
vultures and bottom feeders don't gnaw 'em off. They don't
understand what it means to risk everything -- EVERYTHING -- on a
dream, nor will they ever understand how that motivates us to do what
it takes to fly.

Whatever the results of Scott's tortured estimates, suffice it to say
that our take-home is absurdly low given the number of hours
invested. Mary and I are the lowest-paid workers in the hotel, on a
per-hour basis -- lower than the newest house-keeper or part-time desk
staff. We do this willingly, however, year after year, because our
goal of creating the ultimate fly-in hotel is nearly complete -- and
we will have done it all without incurring debt.

The tradeoffs have been stark, however. Our home has gone virtually
untouched for five years, as we concentrated our efforts on the hotel
-- and it looks it. Our main car is ten years old; my truck is 12
years old.

Still, we understand that the rewards are coming, with luck. Unless,
of course, a new Embassy Suites opens up next door. Or someone slips
on the stairs, or wrecks our courtesy van, or the economy tanks, or
any of a hundred unpredictable catastrophes befall us. Then, every
minute invested over five, long years will have been for naught.

In the meantime, gents, I'm planning on flying while I still can...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote

In the meantime, gents, I'm planning on flying while I still can...

Rock on! ! ! :-)
--
Jim in NC