My wife getting scared

On Oct 1, 3:58 pm, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
I've been a pilot for 12 years now. I've been married (this time) for 10.

Stupid question, but does your wife fly with you? Do you actively
involve her in your flying, or is she completely dis-interested.

Sometimes, it's kinda like air-sickness, if your passenger is quezey,
get them on the stick for a bit - perhaps if you could get your wife
more involved, you could both enjoy it.

AIDS (Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome) is a fairly common affliction
unfortunatly, you may need to take some preventative action sooner
rather than later.

In a previous article, James Sleeman said:
On Oct 1, 3:58 pm, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
I've been a pilot for 12 years now. I've been married (this time) for 10.

Stupid question, but does your wife fly with you? Do you actively
involve her in your flying, or is she completely dis-interested.

She flies with me if we're going somewhere she wants to go. But 90% of
the time if I'm just going for the sake of flying, she doesn't want to go.
I used to drag her along, and she'd read a book or fall asleep.


--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
"I've gone through over-stressed to physical exhaustion -- what's next?"
"Tuesday."
-- Simon Burr and Kyle Hearn

She flies with me if we're going somewhere she wants to go. But 90% of
the time if I'm just going for the sake of flying, she doesn't want to go.
I used to drag her along, and she'd read a book or fall asleep.

Hey, that's the highest compliment a passenger can pay you.

(They can't sleep if they're terrified... ;-)

I have dealt with this fear from many angles. In fact, now it is ME
who is scared, when my only son goes up for a lesson, so the shoe is
truly on the other foot.

With my wife, Mary, the best thing I could have done was to get her
interested in flying. Once SHE had "the bug", there was no way she
could sit on the ground and worry -- she was right there with me.
This, of course, doesn't solve the very real problem of risk and risk
avoidance that comes with flying -- but it makes our marriage more
comfortable.

Our families have always been worried about us flying, especially when
we fly while our kids are in school. I must admit that Mary and I had
long, involved discussions over the wisdom of this practice (required
because our "weekends" are Wed/Thu, so if we want to fly it's going to
be during their school day), and it's not always been easy to
discuss.

Our "worst case scenario" is imagining what would happen to our kids
if we simply went up on a Wednesday and didn't come back. None of
our family lives in Iowa, so the kids would be on their own throughout
the ordeal that would inevitably follow an accident -- and this is
simply not something any parent would wish on their kids.

This fear has faded somewhat, now that our kids are teenagers. When
they were in elementary school, Mary was VERY uncomfortable flying
without them (for some reason it's okay WITH them, which is pretty
odd, if you analyze it too much), because of the awful prospect of
them waiting a day or two for relatives to arrive.

On the plus side, this fear has made us VERY meticulous and careful
pilots. Preflights are NEVER omitted, fuel tanks are ALWAYS filled,
gas is ALWAYS tested, maintenance is ALWAYS done. Still, we all know
that "**** happens", and we could become statistics at some point.

I always fall back on two facts that comfort me:

1. You can either live, or wait to die. It's up to you.

2. Mary and I could be killed driving on the highway any day of the
week.

Life is a terminal condition. No one is getting off of this planet
alive. It's up to each of us to make the best of our time here, and
-- in my world -- that means flying.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
This fear has faded somewhat, now that our kids are teenagers. When
they were in elementary school, Mary was VERY uncomfortable flying
without them (for some reason it's okay WITH them, which is pretty
odd, if you analyze it too much), because of the awful prospect of
them waiting a day or two for relatives to arrive.

I don't think that's odd, Jay. No parent wants anything bad to happen to
their kids, and most would give their own lives to save their children;
but there's also a purely gut instinct that if anything's going to
happen, you hope you're all together, especially when they're
elementary-school age and completely dependent on you. That's both
caring and selfish -- caring in that you KNOW what the aftermath is like
for those left behind (esp kids that age), and selfish in that you don't
want to go and leave them behind to have lives that you won't experience
with them. The redeeming thing is that once they're older and you KNOW
they'd be able to understand, care for themselves (with help) and be
okay if anything happened to you, you can be more okay with them moving
forward in your absence.

Not only is that a possibility if you fly (or fill in the blank with any
other activity), it's also a medical possibility, and we have way less
control over that, assuming we take reasonably good care of ourselves,
than we do over safety in activities. Don't we all know of someone who
was WAY too young when a terminal illness struck without warning and
took them?

On the plus side, this fear has made us VERY meticulous and careful
pilots. Preflights are NEVER omitted, fuel tanks are ALWAYS filled,
gas is ALWAYS tested, maintenance is ALWAYS done. Still, we all know
that "**** happens", and we could become statistics at some point.

Yep. I've been teased that my preflights are like 100-hr inspections. I
do everything you listed above, and it didn't stop the oil cooler from
failing.

Question: how often do you practice simulated engine failures over
places you aren't used to flying patterns? We'd done a simulated engine
failure approach *and landing* on a dirt strip two weeks prior to our
accident. Just having thought about and actually flown the procedure and
then critiqued it later (it went very well but there's always something
you may have done differently/better) may have saved a few precious
seconds in thinking/reacting in the actual emergency. We continue to
practice engine-outs frequently, and not over airports that we're
comfortable flying in and out of -- but it's surprising how many pilots
only do them during BFRs or when getting checked-out in a rental
aircraft.

I always fall back on two facts that comfort me:

1. You can either live, or wait to die. It's up to you.

2. Mary and I could be killed driving on the highway any day of the
week.

Although true, #2 doesn't usually do much to comfort anyone who is
worried about a loved one that flies.

My daughter flies, too. I didn't find out she was soloing until after
the fact, and I appreciate that she spared me -- there was also a method
to her madness as she knew that if I'd known, I'd have been there taking
pictures! But I understood. She's a CFI now and also just became an ATC.
We've flown together some, and I'm comfortable that she's a safe,
competent pilot (and a good CFI) ... but I admit that it's still easier
to hear about her flights after rather than before the fact!

Life is a terminal condition. No one is getting off of this planet
alive. It's up to each of us to make the best of our time here, and
-- in my world -- that means flying.

;-) -- a sentiment most of us agree with. The afternoon of our
accident, when we were driving back to the airport (plane was totaled),
we asked each other if we would fly again, and we both said "I don't
know." That feeling (sadness and uncertainty) lasted for two days. On
the third day, I awoke ANGRY and wanted to complete the flight that we'd
begun the day of the accident.

I'd be interested to know, of those who survive engine failures or other
occurrences that bring airplanes down, what percentage give up flying.

Shirl

Have survived ( just barely ) a engine loss/crash , I went back up as soon
as I could. It was a little bit easier for me as I had no memory of the
accident.

John

"Shirl" wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:
This fear has faded somewhat, now that our kids are teenagers. When
they were in elementary school, Mary was VERY uncomfortable flying
without them (for some reason it's okay WITH them, which is pretty
odd, if you analyze it too much), because of the awful prospect of
them waiting a day or two for relatives to arrive.

I don't think that's odd, Jay. No parent wants anything bad to happen to
their kids, and most would give their own lives to save their children;
but there's also a purely gut instinct that if anything's going to
happen, you hope you're all together, especially when they're
elementary-school age and completely dependent on you. That's both
caring and selfish -- caring in that you KNOW what the aftermath is like
for those left behind (esp kids that age), and selfish in that you don't
want to go and leave them behind to have lives that you won't experience
with them. The redeeming thing is that once they're older and you KNOW
they'd be able to understand, care for themselves (with help) and be
okay if anything happened to you, you can be more okay with them moving
forward in your absence.

Not only is that a possibility if you fly (or fill in the blank with any
other activity), it's also a medical possibility, and we have way less
control over that, assuming we take reasonably good care of ourselves,
than we do over safety in activities. Don't we all know of someone who
was WAY too young when a terminal illness struck without warning and
took them?

On the plus side, this fear has made us VERY meticulous and careful
pilots. Preflights are NEVER omitted, fuel tanks are ALWAYS filled,
gas is ALWAYS tested, maintenance is ALWAYS done. Still, we all know
that "**** happens", and we could become statistics at some point.

Yep. I've been teased that my preflights are like 100-hr inspections. I
do everything you listed above, and it didn't stop the oil cooler from
failing.

Question: how often do you practice simulated engine failures over
places you aren't used to flying patterns? We'd done a simulated engine
failure approach *and landing* on a dirt strip two weeks prior to our
accident. Just having thought about and actually flown the procedure and
then critiqued it later (it went very well but there's always something
you may have done differently/better) may have saved a few precious
seconds in thinking/reacting in the actual emergency. We continue to
practice engine-outs frequently, and not over airports that we're
comfortable flying in and out of -- but it's surprising how many pilots
only do them during BFRs or when getting checked-out in a rental
aircraft.

I always fall back on two facts that comfort me:

1. You can either live, or wait to die. It's up to you.

2. Mary and I could be killed driving on the highway any day of the
week.

Although true, #2 doesn't usually do much to comfort anyone who is
worried about a loved one that flies.

My daughter flies, too. I didn't find out she was soloing until after
the fact, and I appreciate that she spared me -- there was also a method
to her madness as she knew that if I'd known, I'd have been there taking
pictures! But I understood. She's a CFI now and also just became an ATC.
We've flown together some, and I'm comfortable that she's a safe,
competent pilot (and a good CFI) ... but I admit that it's still easier
to hear about her flights after rather than before the fact!

Life is a terminal condition. No one is getting off of this planet
alive. It's up to each of us to make the best of our time here, and
-- in my world -- that means flying.

;-) -- a sentiment most of us agree with. The afternoon of our
accident, when we were driving back to the airport (plane was totaled),
we asked each other if we would fly again, and we both said "I don't
know." That feeling (sadness and uncertainty) lasted for two days. On
the third day, I awoke ANGRY and wanted to complete the flight that we'd
begun the day of the accident.

I'd be interested to know, of those who survive engine failures or other
occurrences that bring airplanes down, what percentage give up flying.

Shirl

Question: how often do you practice simulated engine failures over
places you aren't used to flying patterns?

Sadly, I have to admit that our fear of harming our engine has far
outweighed our fear of an engine-out landing. There is simply nothing
you can do to your engine (in normal use) that is worse than simulated
engine-out landings, so we do them very rarely.

We used to practice them regularly in rental birds...

;-)

My daughter flies, too. I didn't find out she was soloing until after
the fact, and I appreciate that she spared me -- there was also a method
to her madness as she knew that if I'd known, I'd have been there taking
pictures!

Hee hee! I even created a webpage for our son's solo flight, much to
his dismay. (Although I think he appreciates it now...)

I'd be interested to know, of those who survive engine failures or other
occurrences that bring airplanes down, what percentage give up flying.

Well, my mentor experienced an engine-out landing in a corn field. He
did it expertly, neither damaging himself nor the plane. He flew a
few times after that incident, perhaps to prove to himself that he
could (?), but to my knowledge (he lives in Texas now, so we've lost
touch) he's never flown again.

I think his wife -- an adamant anti-flyer -- had a lot to do with
that.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Shirl:
Question: how often do you practice simulated engine failures over
places you aren't used to flying patterns?

Jay:
Sadly, I have to admit that our fear of harming our engine has far
outweighed our fear of an engine-out landing. There is simply nothing
you can do to your engine (in normal use) that is worse than simulated
engine-out landings, so we do them very rarely.

I just had a major engine overhaul done (Lycoming O-320) by a reputable
place. We're still in the break-in phase (15 hours to first oil change,
25 hours with no unusual airwork or touch-n-goes). I'm going to call and
ask the engine shop what their thoughts are about simulated engine
failures harming a healthy engine.

We used to practice them regularly in rental birds...

I used to work at a flight school. It's amazing what people do in rental
birds that they wouldn't THINK of doing in their own! That said, those
airplanes are doing slow flight, stalls, engine-out practices and even
spin training (in some), and they keep faithfully building hours. Yes,
they are inspected every 100 hours and maintained reasonably well --
i.e., if it's necessary, yes; if it's optional, no -- but flight
school/rental airplanes aren't babied like privately-owned airplanes,
and in fact, they do all the things people say are "the worst thing you
can do to an engine" on a regular basis, yet most of them just keep on
ticking. Most get FLOWN a lot more often than privately-owned aircraft,
but doesn't seem that alone would make up for all the time they spend
doing "the worst possible things".

Will let you know what they say.

Jay's wrote:
"Sadly, I have to admit that our fear of harming our engine
has far outweighed our fear of an engine-out landing. There
is simply nothing you can do to your engine (in normal use)
that is worse than simulated engine-out landings, so we do
them very rarely."

I called the overhaul shop that just did a major engine overhaul on my
Lycoming O-320. First, these guys have been there for years and came
highly recommended by several independent sources in my search for a
reputable place to take the engine. I posed the question -- "How harmful
to a healthy engine is simulated engine failure practice?" I told him
that it was said that simulated engine-out practice is the worst thing
you can do to your engine.

He said he disagrees and assumed your concern was probably about shock
cooling, but said that while everyone needs to be aware of that, it is
of much greater concern with high-performance, turbo-charged engines
where people chop power and dive for the ground. With the 0-320, he said
in colder areas (I'm in AZ), you would use carb heat, and of course he
recommended what all CFIs I've ever flown with have done -- "clear" the
engine by adding some power for a few seconds one or two times during
the power-off glide/descent. Yes, that takes a little of the "reality"
out of the drill, but it is, in fact, practice/simulated.

He went on to say that if it were THAT easy to damage the engine by
pulling the power back to idle, how about when you pull the power abeam
the numbers and the hot engine is at idle through the rest of the
approach, landing and taxi and then is shut down completely (standard
practice every time for some)? He commented that it would be tricky to
just shut down a hot engine without damaging it if pulling power back to
idle is all it would take to do so.

You may not agree, and maybe your mechanic doesn't agree ... but as said
in an earlier post, if you think about all the airplanes in flight
schools that are doing simulated engine failures far more frequently
than we would (some much more powerful than an 0-320 ... I can't
remember what engine you have), there would be many more engine problems
in rental/school airplanes than there are if there's nothing worse for
an engine than simulated engine-outs.

I'm just the messenger on this one, not a mechanic, and being a girl, I
did not grow up tinkering with engines. But I dealt regularly with the
mechanics when I worked at the flight school, and I never heard them or
any that have worked on my airplane(s) say anything about simulated
engine failures being potentially dangerous to the engines.

Shirl

"Jay Honeck" wrote:

There is simply nothing
you can do to your engine (in normal use) that is worse than simulated
engine-out landings,

How so?

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

Jay Honeck wrote:
Question: how often do you practice simulated engine failures over
places you aren't used to flying patterns?

Sadly, I have to admit that our fear of harming our engine has far
outweighed our fear of an engine-out landing. There is simply nothing
you can do to your engine (in normal use) that is worse than simulated
engine-out landings, so we do them very rarely.

I personally think that is a myth. I've read about shock cooling until
I'm blue in the face and I simply don't buy it. However, the main
reason is that my primary flight instructor, who is also an A&P and was
an airport manager for many years, always flew all of his airplanes on
power-off gliding approaches. He operated 2 C-150s, 1 C-172 and 2 C-182
for probably two decades and several other airplanes for the two
decades prior to when I met him.

He operated N38 for something like 45 years and flew scenic tours over
the PA Grand Canyon in his 182s and 172. These flights lasted 10-15
minutes and he glided power-off from pattern altitude to landing and
shut-down between runs. His airplanes were started, stopped and "shock
cooled" literally dozens of times every Saturday and Sunday. His 150s
trained students to also fly the way he flew (I'm one of them).

He never had a engine failure in these airplanes to my knowledge and
they routinely ran to TBO. He often groused how the FAA made him
rebuild a perfectly good engine just because he was a commercial operator!

So, I've seen scads of real-life experience that says that shock cooling
is just not real. The real part is people who don't practice engine-out
landings and then crumple an airplane botching the real thing.

Let the games begin! :-)

Matt