Mounties Electrocute Airline Passenger

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 19:08:36 -0500, Dave S
wrote in :

Dave S wrote:
Larry Dighera wrote:


Perhaps. I doubt the coroner will find the passenger to have expired
as a result of the Mounties arresting the passenger. It would be
interesting to know where the darts hit the passenger.
If it was across the chest, I can see how the Taser may have
precipitated a heart attack.

I cant. A taser is not a defibrillator, nor a cardioverter. All use
electricity, but in different manners. The energy involved is much
different. The capacitors involved in medical devices such as external
defibrillators are larger than the entire taser device, and the energy
involved is orders of magnitude larger.


Larry.. for further comparison..

http://www.taser.org/specifications.html has some data.
Most specifically.. each individual energy pulse is 1.76 Joules.

When I use a defibrillator on a patient in cardiac arrest, the
recommended energy ranges are 200-360 joules per discharge. They have to
JUST to be able to get 5-10 joules of energy to the heart itself (which
is the range of energy that INTERNAL defibrillators run at - devices
that have DIRECT electrical contact with the heart. Notice again, the
taser only puts out less than 2 joules.

A police car strobe light runs about 10 joules per flash.

Aircraft strobes run in the 30 joule range

Does this put things in a perspective?

Yes. It does. Thank you for the information. I meant to research
that.

I'm not sure how comparing a defibrillator to a Taser justifys using
Tasers on suspects, but I personally find such use dehumanizing and
hazardous.

I'm not sure how comparing a defibrillator to a Taser justifys using
Tasers on suspects, but I personally find such use dehumanizing and
hazardous.


Perfect!

On 2007-10-18 03:42:51 -0700, Larry Dighera said:

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 19:08:36 -0500, Dave S
wrote in :

Dave S wrote:
Larry Dighera wrote:


Perhaps. I doubt the coroner will find the passenger to have expired
as a result of the Mounties arresting the passenger. It would be
interesting to know where the darts hit the passenger.
If it was across the chest, I can see how the Taser may have
precipitated a heart attack.

I cant. A taser is not a defibrillator, nor a cardioverter. All use
electricity, but in different manners. The energy involved is much
different. The capacitors involved in medical devices such as external
defibrillators are larger than the entire taser device, and the energy
involved is orders of magnitude larger.


Larry.. for further comparison..

http://www.taser.org/specifications.html has some data.
Most specifically.. each individual energy pulse is 1.76 Joules.

When I use a defibrillator on a patient in cardiac arrest, the
recommended energy ranges are 200-360 joules per discharge. They have to
JUST to be able to get 5-10 joules of energy to the heart itself (which
is the range of energy that INTERNAL defibrillators run at - devices
that have DIRECT electrical contact with the heart. Notice again, the
taser only puts out less than 2 joules.

A police car strobe light runs about 10 joules per flash.

Aircraft strobes run in the 30 joule range

Does this put things in a perspective?

Yes. It does. Thank you for the information. I meant to research
that.

I'm not sure how comparing a defibrillator to a Taser justifys using
Tasers on suspects, but I personally find such use dehumanizing and
hazardous.

But you do not find pepper spray, wrestling him to the ground, or other
methods dehumanizing or hazardous?

Perhaps you are putting to fine a point on it, Larry. No matter how you
do it, forcibly rendering someone harmless and throwing him to the
ground is going to be dehumanizing and hazardous.

The pepper spray would definitely have forced evacuation of the whole
terminal until it was cleared, but it probably would not have stopped
the person from throwing his tantrum. Allowing him to continue the
tantrum would only have endangered others and their property, and he
probably would have died anyway. He died of emotional upset, not of a
Taser

Of course, there is always soma-gas. It was basically harmless, and no
one thought that the Brave New World was dehumanizing or hazardous, did
they?
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:57:39 -0700, C J Campbell
wrote in
2007101809573916807-christophercampbell@hotmailcom:

He died of emotional upset, not of a Taser

I hadn't realized you personally conducted an autopsy on the foreign
airline passenger. I guess I'll have to defer to your superior
knowledge of the issue. :-)

Are you able to provide a credible citation that supports your
assertion?

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:57:39 -0700, C J Campbell
wrote in
2007101809573916807-christophercampbell@hotmailcom:

He died of emotional upset, not of a Taser

I hadn't realized you personally conducted an autopsy on the foreign
airline passenger. I guess I'll have to defer to your superior
knowledge of the issue. :-)

Are you able to provide a credible citation that supports your
assertion?


Since when does he need facts to make an assertion? I refer to the subject line
of this thread, which as I recall was chosen by you. You apparently have access
to information denied to the rest of us.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:53:57 -0400, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
:

You apparently have access to information denied to the rest of us.

To which specific information are you referring?

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:53:57 -0400, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
:

You apparently have access to information denied to the rest of us.

To which specific information are you referring?


You chose the inflamatory word "electrocute". Do you know this for a fact? We
know the suspect was tazored but that is not the same as "electrocute". If it
were, the state would just tazor its inmates on death row. Look at all the
money we could save on electric chairs.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:25:42 -0400, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
:

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:53:57 -0400, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
:

You apparently have access to information denied to the rest of us.

To which specific information are you referring?


You chose the inflamatory word "electrocute". Do you know this for a fact? We
know the suspect was tazored but that is not the same as "electrocute". If it
were, the state would just tazor its inmates on death row. Look at all the
money we could save on electric chairs.

You are correct. I misused the word. I'm guilty of yellow journalism
at this point in time, but it's not over yet.

On 2007-10-18 10:41:54 -0700, Larry Dighera said:

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:57:39 -0700, C J Campbell
wrote in
2007101809573916807-christophercampbell@hotmailcom:

He died of emotional upset, not of a Taser

I hadn't realized you personally conducted an autopsy on the foreign
airline passenger. I guess I'll have to defer to your superior
knowledge of the issue. :-)

Ah. And I suppose you performed an autopsy before claiming that the
Mounties electrocuted him.


Are you able to provide a credible citation that supports your
assertion?

Are you?
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:10:36 -0700, C J Campbell
wrote in
2007101814103675249-christophercampbell@hotmailcom:

On 2007-10-18 10:41:54 -0700, Larry Dighera said:

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:57:39 -0700, C J Campbell
wrote in
2007101809573916807-christophercampbell@hotmailcom:

He died of emotional upset, not of a Taser

I hadn't realized you personally conducted an autopsy on the foreign
airline passenger. I guess I'll have to defer to your superior
knowledge of the issue. :-)

Ah. And I suppose you performed an autopsy before claiming that the
Mounties electrocuted him.


I'll agree. The subject is phrased sensationally, but reasonably
accurately if the facts in the news stories I have read are correct.


Are you able to provide a credible citation that supports your
assertion?

Are you?

I posted a link or two to news articles up-thread, IIRC.