How dangerous is soaring?

Personaly, I have never known anyone who was killed as a result of
soaring. I have, of course, known OF pilots who were killed while
flying, and everyone made some mistake which caused their demise
(well, at least one may have had a heart attack).

However, when I was 19, a girl from my high school and church was
killed in a traffic accident. Should I have quit driving?

An acquantance of mine, and fellow glider pilot Jack Lambe was shot
and killed by his brother. I still have my guns (and I won't argue
with you whether you think I should get rid of them or not) and I
still associate with my brother.

Then too, I have fallen off the top of a 6 foot ladder. No, I was not
killed, but I could have been had my head hit the floor before my
shoulder. Yet I worked for another 20 years as an electrician,
climbing ladders.

I have totaled a 1-26 on the side of a mountain. I still fly.

I have also had a serious motorcycle accident (forced off the road by
an inattentive driver) which could easily have resulted in my death.
I still ride.

My point is, as the man said, "you pays your money, you takes your
chances." If you do not think that the benefit is worth the risk,
don't "pays your money." No one can (or should) decide that for you.
In the end, it is all in your perception because some people crash and
some people don't. Some people die soaring, but some people die in
traffic accidents, some people die falling off ladders, and some
people drown in 3 inches of water after slipping in their bath tub.

I don't believe in predestination, but I happen to be one of those
people who believes that when your time is up, it's up. You coud be
soaring or you could be slipping in the tub. I should have died at
least 5 times by now and although I have been seriously ill or injured
in each of these, for who knows what reason, I am still here. I would
have missed a lot if I let my fear of dying rule my life--don't get me
wrong, the chance of dying is always on my mind.

Having said all of this, I now tell you that you have to ignore what
any one done/said and make up your own mind about flying. If you
can't get past the risk of dying, then by all means, quit flying. If
you decide to go on flying, DO NOT fear it. You have to respect the
dangerous activities (flying, driving, working with electricity,
etc.). You will get in A LOT more trouble flying while being afraid
of flying than you ever will if you fly and respect it.

Whatever you decide, it will be the right decision for you, but not
necessarily for anyone else.


On Oct 30, 2:56 am, wrote:
When I started soaring on mid 80's, everybody said that soaring is the
safest aviation sport, almost safer than most 'real' sports. You can't
brake your leg while flying Only when you hit the ground

Though on a first year 4 pilots that I knew got killed with glider.
Not a good start. And during the years I have counted over 20
fatalities where I can say they either they were my friends or I knew
them well. Plus all the other fatalities. Almost every week on this
group, we get another sad message informing yet another fatality. And
most of the cases, pilots has been extremely experiensed. We know that
they haven't done any stupid moves, they just lost the control of the
plane on wrong situation or the plane has failed on them. I personally
feel that I am on the edge to quit this sport because of that. I don't
want to see not even one more friend passing away. I want to push that
off my mind.

Soaring is the greatest sport I can imagine. No other sport can give
me the feeling, same view, same fellowship etc etc. But is it worth
it???

PS

On Oct 30, 5:56 am, wrote:
When I started soaring on mid 80's, everybody said that soaring is the
safest aviation sport, almost safer than most 'real' sports. You can't
brake your leg while flying Only when you hit the ground

Though on a first year 4 pilots that I knew got killed with glider.
Not a good start. And during the years I have counted over 20
fatalities where I can say they either they were my friends or I knew
them well. Plus all the other fatalities. Almost every week on this
group, we get another sad message informing yet another fatality. And
most of the cases, pilots has been extremely experiensed. We know that
they haven't done any stupid moves, they just lost the control of the
plane on wrong situation or the plane has failed on them. I personally
feel that I am on the edge to quit this sport because of that. I don't
want to see not even one more friend passing away. I want to push that
off my mind.

Soaring is the greatest sport I can imagine. No other sport can give
me the feeling, same view, same fellowship etc etc. But is it worth
it???

PS

Last Sunday was one of the most beautiful soaring days imaginable here
in the Ridge Country of the northeastern US. Trees are turning
colors, there were hawks a-plenty, and I even flew with a bald eagle
for a while. It was good.

On the car ride home, I began counting the number of roadside
memorials to people killed in car accidents along interstate 80 (for
those of you not familiar: a) interstate 80 is a major 6 lane highway
which crosses the US and b) there is a trend in the US for people to
set up impromptu roadside memorials to friends and family killed in
car accidents) . In the 30 or so miles I travelled along this section
of road, I counted no fewer than 6 memorials. Six (or more) lives
snuffed out just going about their daily business or visiting friends
and family or maybe taking that long overdue vacation.

What's my conclusion? Life is filled with risks. We can manage
them to the best of our ability, but beyond a certain point there's
only so much that we control. Would I rather be remembered as
someone who had taken advantage of what life has to offer or someone
who "survived" to waste away slowly in an old age home?

I don't want to be cavalier about it, but I believe people who take up
soaring (or motorcycle racing, or downhill skiing, or horse jumping,
or...) know the risks. They choose to accept those risks. I think
they make the right choice.

Erik Mann
LS8-18 (P3)

"Is it worth it?"

No.

But we do it anyway. My, we are a selfish bunch...

wrote in message
ups.com...
When I started soaring on mid 80's, everybody said that soaring is the
safest aviation sport, almost safer than most 'real' sports. You can't
brake your leg while flying Only when you hit the ground

Though on a first year 4 pilots that I knew got killed with glider.
Not a good start. And during the years I have counted over 20
fatalities where I can say they either they were my friends or I knew
them well. Plus all the other fatalities. Almost every week on this
group, we get another sad message informing yet another fatality. And
most of the cases, pilots has been extremely experiensed. We know that
they haven't done any stupid moves, they just lost the control of the
plane on wrong situation or the plane has failed on them. I personally
feel that I am on the edge to quit this sport because of that. I don't
want to see not even one more friend passing away. I want to push that
off my mind.

Soaring is the greatest sport I can imagine. No other sport can give
me the feeling, same view, same fellowship etc etc. But is it worth
it???

PS

wrote:


But is it worth
it???

PS

Yep.

You're gonna die sometime. Why not live while you're breathing?

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...aring/200710/1

I am having similar thoughts as the original poster going through my
mind everytime I hear about another fatality, especially someone I
knew (2 so far this year!). And I think most repliers are correct, for
most of us, it worth it, but probably not for our families and
friends...
I think the most important is to understand the big risk involved, and
not to be in denial like some posters who believe that as long as you
are not doing stupid mistakes you are safe. No matter how safe you
think you are, the risk is still significantly higher than most normal
activities (such as driving). Of course, there are measures we could
take to significantly reduce the risk, such as only fly in stable air,
far from terrain, never get further than 10:1 glide back to the
airport, etc, but than it wouldn't be much fun wouldn't it?

Ramy


On Oct 30, 10:59 am, "Kloudy via AviationKB.com" u33403@uwe wrote:
wrote:

But is it worth
it???

PS

Yep.

You're gonna die sometime. Why not live while you're breathing?

--
Message posted via AviationKB.comhttp://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/soaring/200710/1

On 31 Oct, 00:50, Ramy wrote:

I think the most important is to understand the big risk involved, and
not to be in denial like some posters who believe that as long as you
are not doing stupid mistakes you are safe.

If that's a reference to me then you have missed my point. Which is
that by no being stupid the risk can be enormously reduced, not that
soaring can be safe. Nothing is safe.

If it's not a reference to me just ignore this!

Ian

Not sure I agree with Ramy entirely...

How many traffic accidents have you seen through the years while
driving to the gliderport?

In that same time frame, how many gliders acidents have you seen at
that gliderport?

Richard
Phoenix, AZ

On Oct 30, 5:50 pm, Ramy wrote:
" No matter how safe you think you are, the risk is still
significantly higher than most normal activities (such as driving). "

How many cars are on the roads you use to get to the gliderport?
How many gliders fly at at the gliderport?

jeplane wrote:
Not sure I agree with Ramy entirely...

How many traffic accidents have you seen through the years while
driving to the gliderport?

In that same time frame, how many gliders acidents have you seen at
that gliderport?

Richard
Phoenix, AZ

On Oct 30, 5:50 pm, Ramy wrote:
" No matter how safe you think you are, the risk is still
significantly higher than most normal activities (such as driving). "

On Oct 31, 2:11 pm, Marc Ramsey wrote:
How many cars are on the roads you use to get to the gliderport?
How many gliders fly at at the gliderport?

So you are telling me driving is safer than flying? Not sure if I
would drive or fly with you!...:-)

On Oct 31, 12:51 pm, jeplane wrote:
Not sure I agree with Ramy entirely...

How many traffic accidents have you seen through the years while
driving to the gliderport?

In that same time frame, how many gliders acidents have you seen at
that gliderport?

Richard
Phoenix, AZ

On Oct 30, 5:50 pm, Ramy wrote:
" No matter how safe you think you are, the risk is still
significantly higher than most normal activities (such as driving). "

Not as many road accidents as I have seen at the gliderport!!

Lets face it guys Gliding is Dangerous.
Very Dangerous if you start to push the envelope of your experience
and comfort level.

I have lost over the years more than 10 friends or acquaintances.
When I raced sailboats or windsurfed I never lost any!

This summer was a real bad one for me loosing a very close flying
buddy Geoff Loyns, then Steve Fossett goes missing and now Stew.
All I knew through soaring, hanging at the airport or conversing on
here and emails.

I love soaring and think it has given me some of the best memories of
my life.
But as I look at my young son I am drawn between the selfish urge to
mental floss with soaring and the reality of life.
Running a Start up company with employees that rely on my breathing
and working is another factor.

I will probably keep flying but in a different way than I used to.
My flying will be less risky and not as aggressive as previous years.
I want to also explore other sides of soaring that I have not
experienced as much, such as enjoying the moment more than chasing
after distance/speed.

Don't get me wrong Soaring is an amazing sport but you have to realize
it is dangerous.
It is the only sport I know where if you screw up you will probably
die!!
That is a sobering thought for sure.
Any one who tells you otherwise either is on crack or has not been
around the sport for a long time.
Just hang around the glider port long enough and you WILL loose flying
friends.

It is a fact most people die in bed smelling of urine and lysol,
So the trade off here is gliding or pressing the button above your bed
screaming for the nurse to change your bed pan!!

On that note I will stop waffling..

Regards

Al