Help In Choosing A School For A Private Pilot's License

Chris L wrote:
Hello, I know virtually nothing about flying, but am planning on
getting a private flying license. I have already talked to a few of
the schools in and around the Tukwila/Renton Washington area, and want
to know which is the best all around school.

(1) Pro-Flight Aviation Inc uses a relatively quiet airport (Renton),
but it's still close to Sea-Tac International airport. It seems to be
the most cost effective, has only 3 teachers, uses a DVD interactive
course as the ground school, and one person has told me they are not
very customer friendly. A person there said it's very very hard to
learn ground school material in a cram 2 weekend course.

I bought for $109.99 the "Virtual Test Prep an Aviation Ground School,
Private 08 Pilot" to study and prepare for the airplane private pilot
FAA Knowledge Exam by ASA. I also bought the book Guided Flight
Discovery Private Pilot by Jeppesen, because the owner of the company
said I would, basically, have to read certain sections.

(2) Galvin Flying Service is expensive, has 25 trainers, but uses the
busy (taxing time etc) Boeing airfield.

(3) Acuwings is also uses the quiet Renton airport, says they're more
customer friendly, will be "starting" a new/free ground training class
in Jan, use old aircraft (80's), will teach me on a Tomahawk. A person
there told me to learn from an instructor who I like.

(4) Wings Aloft has 15 to 20 instructors, requires a membership, and I
will call them back to talk to the right person.

(5) PremAir is open Monday through Friday, but I have to call them
back to see what they offer.

(6) Northway Aviation is about an hour away, so it's too far to drive.

It appears that I can get the license in about 6 months if I take
lessons two to three times a week (Saturday, Sunday, Monday) for about
an hour each time.

So what should I do,
Christopher Lusardi

P.S.: It's all for fun and remotely work related. But, I can be able
to pretend that I will to become an astronaut some day. [[:-))

I don't know the location and the specific schools in this discussion
but the general advice you have received from both Bob and Jim is
excellent and I wouldn't add anything to what they have already said
except to stress one factor they have covered; that being the most
important aspect of this equation involves the specific instructor you
choose after deciding on the venue.
I can't stress this strongly enough. The instructor you choose and what
you learn from that instructor will follow you into your tenure as a
pilot. If the instructor is poor, you can pass the test and will most
likely pick up on your own what it takes to be a good pilot in X amount
of time.
If the instructor is good, you will save all this "catching up" period
between the test and X and reaching X you will be leaps and bounds ahead
of where you would be had the CFI been bad.
Pick carefully. It's a VERY important decision!


--
Dudley Henriques

I'll add one more think, the instructor/student relationship is very
personal. Instructors have plan and if a student flies with another
instructor who does not follow the principle instructors plan, it is a
problem. Often the INSTRUCTOR has a series of step by step lesson plans,
concentrating on mastering airwork, turns of all kinds, ground reference
maneuvers, airspeed control and is not ready for "landings" yet.
The student is happy because they are flying and working hard and learning
the basics. But if the instructor is ill and another instructor subs a
problem arises.
#2 instructor may just say to the student, "You've got 8 hours, so let's
stay in the pattern and practice take-offs and landings."

So far your student has been doing the take-off and the landing at the end
of the flight, after being briefed and warmed up with slow flight, glides
and stalls.But after an hour of concentrated TO&L, confused and fixated on
the traffic pattern.
When the INSTRUCTOR comes back, the student doesn't want to practice the
mundane airwork, those crosswind landings are a challenge and fun. The fact
that the skill to really learn don't yet exist means the student feels
overwhelmed. But it is hard to go back to those rectangular patterns,
glides and turns, slow flight and pitch control exercises. So it is
important that your instructors coordinate your lessons. It is valuable to
fly with more than one instructor as you progress in your training.

But you and your instructor are not married nor welded at the hip, if a
problem develops you can change and move on.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFII-ASMELI, A&P
BE400/BE1900-BE300

--
Merry Christmas
Happy New Year
Happy Holidays
Bah Humbug
What Ever


--
The People think the Constitution protects their rights;
But the government sees it as an obstacle to be over-come.
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
| Chris L wrote:
| Hello, I know virtually nothing about flying, but am planning on
| getting a private flying license. I have already talked to a few of
| the schools in and around the Tukwila/Renton Washington area, and want
| to know which is the best all around school.
|
| (1) Pro-Flight Aviation Inc uses a relatively quiet airport (Renton),
| but it's still close to Sea-Tac International airport. It seems to be
| the most cost effective, has only 3 teachers, uses a DVD interactive
| course as the ground school, and one person has told me they are not
| very customer friendly. A person there said it's very very hard to
| learn ground school material in a cram 2 weekend course.
|
| I bought for $109.99 the "Virtual Test Prep an Aviation Ground School,
| Private 08 Pilot" to study and prepare for the airplane private pilot
| FAA Knowledge Exam by ASA. I also bought the book Guided Flight
| Discovery Private Pilot by Jeppesen, because the owner of the company
| said I would, basically, have to read certain sections.
|
| (2) Galvin Flying Service is expensive, has 25 trainers, but uses the
| busy (taxing time etc) Boeing airfield.
|
| (3) Acuwings is also uses the quiet Renton airport, says they're more
| customer friendly, will be "starting" a new/free ground training class
| in Jan, use old aircraft (80's), will teach me on a Tomahawk. A person
| there told me to learn from an instructor who I like.
|
| (4) Wings Aloft has 15 to 20 instructors, requires a membership, and I
| will call them back to talk to the right person.
|
| (5) PremAir is open Monday through Friday, but I have to call them
| back to see what they offer.
|
| (6) Northway Aviation is about an hour away, so it's too far to drive.
|
| It appears that I can get the license in about 6 months if I take
| lessons two to three times a week (Saturday, Sunday, Monday) for about
| an hour each time.
|
| So what should I do,
| Christopher Lusardi
|
| P.S.: It's all for fun and remotely work related. But, I can be able
| to pretend that I will to become an astronaut some day. [[:-))
|
| I don't know the location and the specific schools in this discussion
| but the general advice you have received from both Bob and Jim is
| excellent and I wouldn't add anything to what they have already said
| except to stress one factor they have covered; that being the most
| important aspect of this equation involves the specific instructor you
| choose after deciding on the venue.
| I can't stress this strongly enough. The instructor you choose and what
| you learn from that instructor will follow you into your tenure as a
| pilot. If the instructor is poor, you can pass the test and will most
| likely pick up on your own what it takes to be a good pilot in X amount
| of time.
| If the instructor is good, you will save all this "catching up" period
| between the test and X and reaching X you will be leaps and bounds ahead
| of where you would be had the CFI been bad.
| Pick carefully. It's a VERY important decision!
|
|
| --
| Dudley Henriques

Jim Macklin wrote:
I'll add one more think, the instructor/student relationship is very
personal. Instructors have plan and if a student flies with another
instructor who does not follow the principle instructors plan, it is a
problem. Often the INSTRUCTOR has a series of step by step lesson plans,
concentrating on mastering airwork, turns of all kinds, ground reference
maneuvers, airspeed control and is not ready for "landings" yet.
The student is happy because they are flying and working hard and learning
the basics. But if the instructor is ill and another instructor subs a
problem arises.
#2 instructor may just say to the student, "You've got 8 hours, so let's
stay in the pattern and practice take-offs and landings."

So far your student has been doing the take-off and the landing at the end
of the flight, after being briefed and warmed up with slow flight, glides
and stalls.But after an hour of concentrated TO&L, confused and fixated on
the traffic pattern.
When the INSTRUCTOR comes back, the student doesn't want to practice the
mundane airwork, those crosswind landings are a challenge and fun. The fact
that the skill to really learn don't yet exist means the student feels
overwhelmed. But it is hard to go back to those rectangular patterns,
glides and turns, slow flight and pitch control exercises. So it is
important that your instructors coordinate your lessons. It is valuable to
fly with more than one instructor as you progress in your training.

But you and your instructor are not married nor welded at the hip, if a
problem develops you can change and move on.


This is true and can indeed be a problem. The way we handled this was
that any instructor subbing for another one was charged with dealing
with this situation in a prescribed manner;
that being to review the student's log book and become familiar with the
last thing covered, then do the dual session based on where the OTHER
instructor was on the learning curve at that that time with THAT student
In other words, the subbing CFI did just that...sub for the other
instructor, gearing the time spent to where the subbing CFI felt the
OTHER instructor would be going with that lesson.
Our CFI's were told to use tact when in this situation. Any devience
from what the prime instructor had told the student was handled
carefully with the well being of the student in mind at all times.
Instructors who entered into "do it my way" or "my way is the right way"
contests with students didn't last long around me and the we did things.
Our instructors would take something a student was doing wrong in these
situations and guide the student through a correction if required in
technique without ever mentioning they were approaching the issue a bit
differently than another instructor on the staff.
This of course meant that we had all our CFI's in "tune" with the way we
did things so everybody got along, was totally competent, and most
importantly on the same page all the time .
--
Dudley Henriques

That is the way it should be, but sometimes is not. It is one of the things
that should be looked for when selecting a school.



"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| I'll add one more think, the instructor/student relationship is very
| personal. Instructors have plan and if a student flies with another
| instructor who does not follow the principle instructors plan, it is a
| problem. Often the INSTRUCTOR has a series of step by step lesson
plans,
| concentrating on mastering airwork, turns of all kinds, ground reference
| maneuvers, airspeed control and is not ready for "landings" yet.
| The student is happy because they are flying and working hard and
learning
| the basics. But if the instructor is ill and another instructor subs a
| problem arises.
| #2 instructor may just say to the student, "You've got 8 hours, so let's
| stay in the pattern and practice take-offs and landings."
|
| So far your student has been doing the take-off and the landing at the
end
| of the flight, after being briefed and warmed up with slow flight,
glides
| and stalls.But after an hour of concentrated TO&L, confused and fixated
on
| the traffic pattern.
| When the INSTRUCTOR comes back, the student doesn't want to practice the
| mundane airwork, those crosswind landings are a challenge and fun. The
fact
| that the skill to really learn don't yet exist means the student feels
| overwhelmed. But it is hard to go back to those rectangular patterns,
| glides and turns, slow flight and pitch control exercises. So it is
| important that your instructors coordinate your lessons. It is valuable
to
| fly with more than one instructor as you progress in your training.
|
| But you and your instructor are not married nor welded at the hip, if a
| problem develops you can change and move on.
|
|
| This is true and can indeed be a problem. The way we handled this was
| that any instructor subbing for another one was charged with dealing
| with this situation in a prescribed manner;
| that being to review the student's log book and become familiar with the
| last thing covered, then do the dual session based on where the OTHER
| instructor was on the learning curve at that that time with THAT student
| In other words, the subbing CFI did just that...sub for the other
| instructor, gearing the time spent to where the subbing CFI felt the
| OTHER instructor would be going with that lesson.
| Our CFI's were told to use tact when in this situation. Any devience
| from what the prime instructor had told the student was handled
| carefully with the well being of the student in mind at all times.
| Instructors who entered into "do it my way" or "my way is the right way"
| contests with students didn't last long around me and the we did things.
| Our instructors would take something a student was doing wrong in these
| situations and guide the student through a correction if required in
| technique without ever mentioning they were approaching the issue a bit
| differently than another instructor on the staff.
| This of course meant that we had all our CFI's in "tune" with the way we
| did things so everybody got along, was totally competent, and most
| importantly on the same page all the time .
| --
| Dudley Henriques

Instructors have plan and if a student flies with another
instructor who does not follow the principle instructors plan, it is a
problem.

I strongly disagree. When I was taking primary lessons, I found that I often learned more when I had a sub instructor =because= the approach or the material was different. It is good to be exposed to different ways of doing things, and different things in a different order.

Maybe that's just the way =I= am, but I doubt I'm all that unusual, and I would not make the blanket statement that flying with another instructor who doesn't follow the first's plan is "a problem".

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
Instructors have plan and if a student flies with another instructor
who does not follow the principle instructors plan, it is a problem.

I strongly disagree. When I was taking primary lessons, I found that I
often learned more when I had a sub instructor =because= the approach or
the material was different. It is good to be exposed to different ways
of doing things, and different things in a different order.

Maybe that's just the way =I= am, but I doubt I'm all that unusual, and
I would not make the blanket statement that flying with another
instructor who doesn't follow the first's plan is "a problem".

Jose

It's more correct to say that flying with another instructor (who
confuses the student) can be a problem.

Naturally obtaining different opinions and different approaches to the
flying equation is beneficial. I don't believe Jim meant to convey that
it wasn't. I know I most certainly didn't mean to imply this.
Differing opinion is one thing. Differing opinion applied during a
structured training program DONE INEFFECTIVELY and without consideration
for how the student will react to this differing opinion can indeed be
harmful.
The bottom line is that differing opinion and viewpoint can be helpful
or it can be harmful. How this plays out defines the caliber and quality
of the teacher involved.

--
Dudley Henriques

Right ON.



"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
| Jose wrote:
| Instructors have plan and if a student flies with another instructor
| who does not follow the principle instructors plan, it is a problem.
|
| I strongly disagree. When I was taking primary lessons, I found that I
| often learned more when I had a sub instructor =because= the approach or
| the material was different. It is good to be exposed to different ways
| of doing things, and different things in a different order.
|
| Maybe that's just the way =I= am, but I doubt I'm all that unusual, and
| I would not make the blanket statement that flying with another
| instructor who doesn't follow the first's plan is "a problem".
|
| Jose
|
| It's more correct to say that flying with another instructor (who
| confuses the student) can be a problem.
|
| Naturally obtaining different opinions and different approaches to the
| flying equation is beneficial. I don't believe Jim meant to convey that
| it wasn't. I know I most certainly didn't mean to imply this.
| Differing opinion is one thing. Differing opinion applied during a
| structured training program DONE INEFFECTIVELY and without consideration
| for how the student will react to this differing opinion can indeed be
| harmful.
| The bottom line is that differing opinion and viewpoint can be helpful
| or it can be harmful. How this plays out defines the caliber and quality
| of the teacher involved.
|
| --
| Dudley Henriques

It's more correct to say that flying with another instructor (who confuses the student) can be a problem.

Flying with =an= instructor who confuses the student is a problem, irrespective of whether it is the original instructor or a different one. The implication I picked up was that being exposed to a different approach is inherently confusing; it is that with which I disagree. Otherwise what you (and others) have said applies equally to the original instructor as to the substitute one.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
It's more correct to say that flying with another instructor (who
confuses the student) can be a problem.

Flying with =an= instructor who confuses the student is a problem,
irrespective of whether it is the original instructor or a different
one. The implication I picked up was that being exposed to a different
approach is inherently confusing; it is that with which I disagree.
Otherwise what you (and others) have said applies equally to the
original instructor as to the substitute one.

Jose

I'll be sure to look you up if I go back into flight instruction.

--
Dudley Henriques

I'll be sure to look you up if I go back into flight instruction.

Looking for somebody to confuse? That's too easy.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.