$16,619.85

On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 18:32:04 +0100, Martin Hotze wrote:

do you have some other 'facts' than somebody's post in r.a.s?

First place I looked:

http://www.anglianflightcentres.co.uk/prices.html

Assuming best case 45 hours:

45 hours C172 x 121.50 = £ 5,467.00
30 hours instructor x £37 = £ 1.110.00
Total: £ 6,577.50 GBP

$ 13,108.99 USD

Does not include:
One to one ground school with instructor (per hour) £20.00
Fee for the issue of Private Pilots Licence (JAA 5 year) POA
Medical Fee (Depending on age and on ECG Requirements) POA
Landing fee (full member) £5.00
Full Member (annual) £105.00
Proficiency Test £35.00
Skill Test £150.00
R/T test £50.00
IMC test £50.00
PPL Written Exams (each) £20.00

--
Dallas

Wolfgang Schwanke writes:

In continental Europe, you get the same prices but with a ¤ instead of
a £ sign, meaning about 67 percent of the above.

But then comes the exchange rate:

full PPL-A 7,405 EUR

That's nearly $US 11,000.

Still extremely expensive. In France, for 90% of the population, that's more
than four months of salary.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Wolfgang Schwanke writes:

In continental Europe, you get the same prices but with a ¤ instead
of a £ sign, meaning about 67 percent of the above.

But then comes the exchange rate:

full PPL-A 7,405 EUR

That's nearly $US 11,000.

Still extremely expensive. In France, for 90% of the population,
that's more than four months of salary.



So? Don't fly then.


Bertie

On 30 Dec 2007 19:26:08 GMT, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:

London has the highest living costs
Fair enough... I'll concede that it isn't as expensive as I was led to
believe.

*****

landing fees 880 EUR

Wolfgang, would you explain how landing fees work in Europe.

Does the fee apply to every landing, including local training such as touch
and gos?

Who does the accounting in this situation (who counts the landings) ?

Who does the billing/collection of the money?

Are you expected to pay on the day of use or can a towered airport record
your tail number and bill your address?


--
Dallas

On 2007-12-31, Dallas wrote:
landing fees 880 EUR

Wolfgang, would you explain how landing fees work in Europe.

Europe isn't a country - they may not work the same in every European
country. It's a misconception that the EU is a bit like the USA - a
collection of non-sovereign states. Europe is a collection of
independent states, and as such, things work differently in different
countries.

At my airfield, for instance, I've never paid a landing fee (because I'm
based there). Visitors do though.


Does the fee apply to every landing, including local training such as touch
and gos?

Who does the accounting in this situation (who counts the landings) ?

Who does the billing/collection of the money?

Are you expected to pay on the day of use or can a towered airport record
your tail number and bill your address?

All those, at least heere, are up to the airfield. Typically when you
visit an airfield, you'll pay any fees (fuel, landings etc.) before you
depart. Most places I've been, the "FBO" (we don't call them that here)
presents you with a bill with your fuel and any other fees, just like
what happens if you buy fuel at a US airfield (or go to one of the few
US airfields that charge a landing fee).
--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

On 1 Jan 2008 16:27:39 GMT, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:

With my microlight I usually pay 2 to 4 EUR per landing at most rural
airports, rarely more. 2 tonners like C172s pay somewhere between 4 and
10 at the same airports.

Interesting... (if not a bit terrifying to US pilots)

As much as we hate government involvement in general, I think it would be
fair to say that the U.S. subsides GA to encourage it's existence.


Disclaimer:
(But, I'm a new pilot... I don't know how fair that statement is.)

--
Dallas

"Dallas" wrote

As much as we hate government involvement in general, I think it would be
fair to say that the U.S. subsides GA to encourage it's existence.


Disclaimer:
(But, I'm a new pilot... I don't know how fair that statement is.)

I don't think so, and here are my reasons.

Most airports that get federal funding, are there just like roads are there
to make access to transportation of an enhanced means such as flying
possible. If you call that subsidized, oh well, but I disagree with that.

Runways wear out because of weather and time, and because of loading cycles
of large planes landing on them. The single engine piston airplanes do not
contribute to stressing the pavement of the runways and taxiways, at all.

Control towers and instrument landing equipment is at larger airports to
serve the larger GA types, which are mostly business transportation, and
that is a cost of a region keeping good business in the area, and a good tax
base and employer giving jobs to the people of the area.

Charging an additional landing fee for using assets that would be there with
or without the "little guy" put-putting along in his C-150 (or larger) makes
no sense to me. It only places an unfair burden on an already expensive
hobby.
--
Jim in NC

In article ,
Dallas wrote:

As much as we hate government involvement in general, I think it would be
fair to say that the U.S. subsides GA to encourage it's existence.

What subsidies?

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

In article ,
Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:

As much as we hate government involvement in general, I think it
would be fair to say that the U.S. subsides GA to encourage it's
existence.

What subsidies?

What revenues do they get? Do they run at a loss?

? I'm included in what people refer to as "GA" and I don't get revenue
from flying. I fly because I love flying.

It would seem that you are implying that any company doing business
in GA would require subsidies in order to not run at a loss. Is that what
you are trying to say?

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

Its not clear what the marginal cost of GA is in the US. Arguably it
is zero or negligible because all the infrastructure in place (control
towers, FSS etc) are there to serve the airlines and GA aircraft can
be refused many ATC services like flight following, access to class B
etc if the workload is too high. In other words, if all the GA traffic
in the US were to disappear overnight, the costs of running airports,
control towers etc is going to remain almost the same. I am not aware
of free services that exist solely for GA. Whatever costs are incurred
by GA are covered in part by a fuel surcharge.
There are landing fees for most passenger aircraft at larger airports.
Landing fees do not exist at smaller airports for GA traffic.


No, I'm talking about airports only. If American airports don't ask for
landing fees _and_ don't get subsidies, what the hell do they make
money from? Their core business, namely offering a place where aircraft
can land and take off, can't be it, cause it's free. They might make
money from selling petrol (if they sell any), or from an associated
restaurant, or from hangar rents. But you can do the same running a
petrol station for cars, with a much lower investment, so it's not
going to be very attractive businesswhise.

Regards

--
Royaume Uni douze points

http://www.wschwanke.de/ usenet_20031215 (AT) wschwanke (DOT) de