$16,619.85

The debate is whether flying in Europe is so astronomically expensive
that it's out of reach for normal people, and specifically if the
prices that "Dallas" found are typical.

I don't think its out of reach in Europe but a person would need to be
more motivated than in the US to take up flying. I certainly would
have thought twice about learning to fly if the costs were 50% higher.
Here in California, I can rent a C-150 wet for $75 per hr (was $65 two
years ago) and there are dozens of scenic airports to go to on a
sunday morning with no landing fees to worry about.

Martin Hotze wrote:

so a cheap used car sells for about $5K over there?


I just sold a 1996 Cadillac DeVille, every option except moonroof, excellant
condition, 78,000 miles, for $5,500....
Yes, you can get a very nice used car for $5K........

Tina wrote in news:ccba189a-4b60-4ada-9d31-
:

Here's a minor insight into mx's comment. Since he is not of 'noble'
blood, the stratifcation he mentions is a reason why he is condemned
to spending his time alone playing computer games while others are
actually living a real life in Paris.

I have several clients who use similiar excuses to explain how it is
they, who are intelligent, have managed to live a less fulfilling life
than their inferiors.

If those clients can be helped to see a different reality, they are on
their way to a healthier mental existance.

Some horses can be shown a fresh water spring, but won't willingly
drink from it.

You know, if someone could rephase that last line, , it might become a
common saying. Bertie, would "Mx is an idiot" be a suitable rephasing?


How 'bout, "You can give cents to a Manic, but you can't make them common"

the discussion is whether it's cheaper for Europeans to go to the US for
learning to fly. Right now (IMHO) we're about $5K in the US plus
airfare, housing, time, etc. compared to about $10K in Europe.


For time building (for an ATP for instance) it makes a lot of sense.
Just for a PPL, I am not sure it does. It would still be a close call
though. You could probably get a PPL for something like $12K flying in
from Europe for a month. The extra 2K would be worth it since the
training in the US is probably a richer experience with so many
airports/airplanes/airspaces and the greater exposure to using English
on the radio.
Getting past the bureaucracy involved to train here might be the main
hurdle..


so a cheap used car sells for about $5K over there?


Yep, the US is a strange place, teenagers working in departmental
stores can drive swanky BMWs and Mercs here. It only costs a few
hundred dollars a month to hang on to a fancy car.

so a cheap used car sells for about $5K over there?

I just sold a 1996 Cadillac DeVille, every option except moonroof, excellant
condition, 78,000 miles, for $5,500....
Yes, you can get a very nice used car for $5K........

My Toyota T100 4x4 Extended cab was just $2500. It needed work to the
tune of 2 AMUs. So, for a total of $4500, I've got an outstanding off-
road (or on) truck that I use every day. It's the Mighty Grape II,
and we use it to haul mogas to our plane.

For just $500 more (here in Iowa), you can learn to fly.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote in
:

so a cheap used car sells for about $5K over there?

I just sold a 1996 Cadillac DeVille, every option except moonroof,
excellant condition, 78,000 miles, for $5,500....
Yes, you can get a very nice used car for $5K........

My Toyota

And you whine about Chinese imports?


Bertie

schrieb:

so a cheap used car sells for about $5K over there?

Yep, the US is a strange place, teenagers working in departmental
stores can drive swanky BMWs and Mercs here. It only costs a few
hundred dollars a month to hang on to a fancy car.


sorry, my emphasis was on the _cheap_. Cheap cars (beaters) can be had
for at least half of the money and they might be good for a year or two
to drive (without much expectations re luxury).

#m

Wolfgang Schwanke writes:

In continental Europe, you get the same prices but with a ¤ instead of
a £ sign, meaning about 67 percent of the above.

But then comes the exchange rate:

full PPL-A 7,405 EUR

That's nearly $US 11,000.

Still extremely expensive. In France, for 90% of the population, that's more
than four months of salary.

Wolfgang Schwanke writes:

It's undisputed that flying is considerably cheaper in the US.

The debate is whether flying in Europe is so astronomically expensive
that it's out of reach for normal people, and specifically if the
prices that "Dallas" found are typical.

That requires that you define "out of reach" and "normal people."

For most people in both Europe and the U.S., flying is either absolutely out
of reach (meaning that they cannot possibly afford it, no matter what
sacrifices are made), or practically out of reach (meaning that the sacrifices
required to scrape up the money are so great that they eclipse any desire to
fly).

A lot has changed since those halcyon days of the 1970s (which, incidentally,
also were very near the peak of buying power for Americans).

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Wolfgang Schwanke writes:

In continental Europe, you get the same prices but with a ¤ instead
of a £ sign, meaning about 67 percent of the above.

But then comes the exchange rate:

full PPL-A 7,405 EUR

That's nearly $US 11,000.

Still extremely expensive. In France, for 90% of the population,
that's more than four months of salary.



So? Don't fly then.


Bertie