Hilarious

On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 21:15:42 -0800, "Bob Gardner"
wrote:

Not to worry!!! We will have 35 mpg cars on the road in 13 years. In the

There are a number of fairly nice cars that will do that or close to
it already. Several economy cars can do well better. My wife's hybrid
gets an honest 47 all around.

meantime, China and India will improve their infrastructure, meaning more
cars on the road and more fuel needed. Gas will be $10 per gallon. In 2020,
some politician will suggest improving the interstate rail system, like the
railroads in Europe and Japan, and will be hailed as a genius. Then it will
be another 20 years minimum before investment in rail has any effect.

Bob Gardner

wrote in message
...
On Dec 28, 4:20 pm, wrote:

2 decades ago, alot of American car factories were shut down due to
the surge of Japanese cars and because of that alot of American

Which was due to the quality and lack of economy of the American cars
at the time. This is when we were just getting away from "Planned
obsolescence"

factories workers held resentment against Japanese cars, and the

Japan made what the American public would purchase with good quality,
not what the car makers wanted to sell or the American public said
they wanted.

situation only got better when Japanese automakers decide to open many
factories in America.

Check the parts in so called American made cars. Many might have a
problem with the 51% home built rule:-))


My wife and I were in Africa a few weeks ago and saw many
Japanese vehicles there along with European stuff, but I was floored
to learn of a couple of makes I'd never heard of befo Great Wall
Motors (China), and Mahindra (India). Good-looking stuff but
apparently it's still rather cheap. But they'll fix that and we North
Amicans will be in even deeper trouble.

Low labor cost in Japan gave them an advantage over American labor.
Now Korean labor prices are giving Japan competition. However the
Koreans are already worried about China and India. And so it goes...

Eventually it'll all even out, if a pandemic, nature, and accident, or
we don't wipe ourselves out.

Roger (K8RI)


Go he http://www.chinacartimes.com/categor...t-wall-motors/

And he
http://www.mahindra.com/OurBusinesse...ufacturer.html

I bet others will show up. Doesn't look good for the big NA
automakers. Too smug for too long.

Dan

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message ...

Low labor cost in Japan gave them an advantage over American labor.
Now Korean labor prices are giving Japan competition. However the
Koreans are already worried about China and India. And so it goes...

Eventually it'll all even out, if a pandemic, nature, and accident, or
we don't wipe ourselves out.

Roger (K8RI)




The country with the lowest costs last will 'win'. Maybe that is why the dollar is so weak these days....

Roger (K8RI) writes:

Unfortunately due to regulations and cost GA in Europe is a mere
shadow of what we see in the US.

Which is worrisome, given how it is dwindling in the U.S.

That is to say the products made in developing countries bear little of the
cost of the social structure we expect in this country. Products from
developing countries can undercut price, or use higher-priced materials and
still be competitive on price because of vastly reduced labor costs. The
sort of jobs which involve the greatest social benefits are usually the
first to leave, as the manufacturers vote with their feet.

Outside of government (which has no responsibility to anyone, ever) and a
few legacy companies, where have you seen defined benefit plans for
employees lately?

"muff528" wrote in message
news:NRsej.435$v_4.47@trnddc03...

"LWG" wrote in message
...

How do you expect American companies to compete against the world when
the American companies have to pay their workers 60k -100k per year,
whether they work or not, and then support them in retirement in that
same standard of living for as long as thirty to forty years?
.................................................. ..........

.................................................. ...Remember that as you
crow about how great the products are from developing companies, you are
purchasing that quality at the expense of your fellow workers.

That.....does......not.....compute!
That.......does......not......compute!

TP

On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:27:47 GMT, "John Mazor"
wrote:


"John Halpenny" wrote in message
...
On Dec 31, 11:01 am, "Maxwell" wrote:
"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in
6.130...

The problem was everything else. The transition to plastics was in full
swing, the unibody eliminated the full frames, everything was lighted as
much as possible for fuel savings. I remember all kinds of problems with
everything from door and window operators, to heater controls, instruments,
front suspension issues and alike. What the japs were good at was building
small, lightweight and reliable cars, due to their complete attention to
every detail. I think failure of those small details sent a lot of US made
cars to the crusher while the engines and drive trains were still in pretty
good condition.

- My first car was a brand new white '68 Mercury Cougar, made in the
- USA. I drove home and parked in the driveway to show it off.
- Unfortunately, I couldn't get out because the inside door handle had fallen off.
-
- It was a very nice car in many respects, but I could never drive at
- the speed limit - there was a nasty vibration between 63 and 67 mph
- that they were never able to fix. The engine lasted 45,0000 miles
- before a valve job, and the body was rusted out in five years.
-
- It could have been worse. My neighbour bought a brand new Chev at the
- same time, and after three days her window fell out. Every car I
- bought since has been made in Japan.

My first new car was a 1968 Chevy Nova. Nothing fancy anywhere on it, not the best
performing car by any means, but it was cheap, reliable, and adequate for my needs at the

I bought a new Ford Mustang back in that era. The one with the long
nose. Beautiful car. The right front quarter panel rusted out in less
than 9 months. The hole was big enough to stick you fist through
without touching the edges. Ford said "not to worry", they'd cover
half the cost of the repair. By going to a regular body shop I
managed to get it done for about a quarter less than that. I
replaced it with an LTD as the family was growing. Drove that one
with no problems until the wheels were about to fall off.

In 81 or 2 I purchased another Mustang. On the way to work in a heavy
rain I noticed the floor was getting wet. I set up an appointment
with the dealer who promised to fix it right away. As I had a week end
I decided to look at it myself. I pulled the seats and carpet out and
what did I find? The floor pan had never been welded in or sealed to
the body. You could see daylight all the way down both sides of the
thing. How do you not do that with a unibody? Maybe the Mustang
wasn't unibody yet...MY memory gets foggy that far back. When I took
it to the dealer it was without the interior installed with the
exception of the driver's seat. When they saw the problem it was "call
the factory" and I drove a loaner for a week. At any rate I traded
for a nice new Z-28 with T-tops and a Corvette engine. (I was single
again :-)) ). I had less than 200 miles on it and was just pulling
off the US-27 expressway at Mt Pleasant when there was a loud bang
and the car started shaking so bad it was difficult to control.

On the front of the engine there is a 3 shiv pulley. This pulley is
constructed of sheet metal that has been rolled and welded. Well, it's
supposed to be welded. It had only been tacked on one side. The
resultant flexing had caused two of the three shivs to separate in a
rather spectacular fashion. Fortunately that big fiberglass hood was
strong enough to prevent them from going through. Unfortunately it
was dark, cold, and I had no tools. Fortunately the first car by was
some one I knew and he had tools. We removed the two belts.
Fortunately the one left took care of the essentials. Of course the
dealer had to order a new pulley and that would take a week or two to
get. Soooo... I took the pulley off, and we trimmed it back to one
shive that was nice, neat, and *balanced*. Surprisingly that was the
only problem I ever had with that car.

My current car is a 99 Toyota 4-Runner (relatively small to mid size
SUV) that gets used like a truck. while my wife drives a Toyota
The 4-Runner has near 85,000 and maintenance is no more than a couple
hundred dollars per year including oil changes, plus it's been long
paid for. No problems so far, but it does need to go in to have the
rust proofing redone.

I've owned a lot of cars since my first one in 58 (56 Ford with a
police interceptor engine) to the current 4-Runner. The only ones
without problems were a 62 Bonivelle convertible, the Ford LTD, and
the 4 Runner. The only problem I had with the Trans Am (Car prior to
the 4 -Runner) was what they call the replacement for the distributor.
It's on the bottom front of the engine. It's susceptible to water and
right where it's likely to get hit by water. That was the only problem
I had with that car. I had close to 90,000 on it and had planned on
many more years with it, that is until the GMC Jimmy with all 4
burning rubber pulled out in front of me and put the right front wheel
back in the passenger compartment with me. Moved the whole firewall
back against the bottom of the dash and blew out the windshield.

Roger (K8RI)

time. It was simple enough that I learned basic do-it-yourself maintenance on it. It was
still in good running and body condition when I sold it 6 years later. This was before
the industry really went south in the 70s. However, I remember a mechanically minded
cousin advising us in the late 50s or early 60s that the first thing you should do when
you get a new car was take a wrench and screwdriver and tighten everything you could get
at. I guess even then the shop floor instructions were "just keep 'em moving, we'll fix
anything you miss at the dealer under warranty."

Of course, that meant that millions of PO'd customers had to have things fixed. So when
Japanese cars started appearing without those minor manufacturing glitches because of
their attention to detail, even a mediocre import carried an aura of quality compared to
the U.S. equivalents. Their comparatively better attention to details in design vs.
domestic models further eroded the U.S. car image. (OTOH, in the late 80s my wife bought
a Japanese import that we sold less than a year later because as soon as we drove it home,
the finish started speckling from exposure on the boat to salt water and/or acid rain.)

U.S. car quality has improved significantly from the "slap 'em together and move 'em out"
days. I'm still driving a 1995 domestic sedan. The exterior and interior are a bit worn
but it still runs reliably and has more than adequate performance. Whenever anyone tells
me that it's time to get a new one, I point out that it's paid for and I average less than
$2k a year on maintenance, which is about 3+ months worth of new car payments when you add
in the increased insurance and taxes (both dirt cheap now). YMMV, but when it goes I'm
definitely not going to automatically rule out a domestic model.

On Dec 31 2007, 10:11*am, Roy Smith wrote:
In article ,
*john smith wrote:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
AJ wrote in news:615a2c9c-fa6c-4339-a9a2-
\ Old Dodge Darts were OK actually. Or was that your point?
I had a 62 Plymouth Valiant and it was damn near bulletproof. Relatively
cheap to run too.

Nothing could top the 170-"slant six"!

My father had a Dodge Dart, with the slant six. *I don't remember the exact
model year, but it must have been sometime in the early 70's.

I remember it had a bizarre engine problem (which was eventually fixed by a
recall). *Once the engine warmed up, it would stall when (here's the
bizarre part) you made a left turn. *Didn't happen when it was cold. *
Didn't happen when going straight or making a right turn. *Bizarre.

I vaguely remember it having to do with some rubber gasket or seal not
being happy with the then-new unleaded gas. *Why it only happened on left
turns, I have no clue.

I had a Jeep Wagoneer that did the same thing - except it happened on
right turns. It started soon after I bought it (used). Then it
suddenly stopped stalling - and continued without the problem for
several years. The stalling returned later on. It would always start
right up afterwards. Figuring that it was a fuel float problem, I sent
the carburetor in for overhaul. Didn't help. Then I approached the
local dealer about repairs - only to be told "we don't have anybody
who works on carburetors anymore". I learned to live with the
problem.

David Johnson

The big three have yet to respond to that wake-up call.

I'd have to disagree with that. I bought a new Ford Thunderbird in
1992. It has been my daily driver ever since, and now has 180K miles.
Other than an Idle Motor (part of the fuel injection) and a wheel
bearing, it has needed nothing other than tires and brakes and normal
maintenance. Still has the original belts and hoses.

Would I buy another one? You bet your ass I would!

David Johnson

"LWG" wrote in message
. ..
That is to say the products made in developing countries bear little of
the cost of the social structure we expect in this country. Products from
developing countries can undercut price, or use higher-priced materials
and still be competitive on price because of vastly reduced labor costs.
The sort of jobs which involve the greatest social benefits are usually
the first to leave, as the manufacturers vote with their feet.

Outside of government (which has no responsibility to anyone, ever) and a
few legacy companies, where have you seen defined benefit plans for
employees lately?


What I mean is ----- Why should a consumer worry about "...purchasing that
quality at the expense of your fellow workers..." when the same workers have
demonstrated an unwillingness to contribute to the efficient production of
the product virtually causing the price to be artificially inflated? (
"...the American companies have to pay their workers 60k -100k per year,
whether they work or not, and then support them in retirement in that same
standard of living for as long as thirty to forty years?...) I'm just
wondering how the two statements can be reconciled. Are the workers entitled
to work for 60-100k with defined benefit plans and sweet retirement deals
because they simply exist as workers or because they actually contribute
profitability to their company?

"Dave" wrote

I'd have to disagree with that. I bought a new Ford Thunderbird in
1992. It has been my daily driver ever since, and now has 180K miles.
Other than an Idle Motor (part of the fuel injection) and a wheel
bearing, it has needed nothing other than tires and brakes and normal
maintenance. Still has the original belts and hoses.

Would I buy another one? You bet your ass I would!
Yep. Other than an occasional lemon, people who think the US builds crap
are basically living projected expectations. They expect that the cars are
crap, so they think they are.

I laugh everytime one of my Japanese or German car driving friends have to
take it in for a simple repair. $100 bucks for a similar repair for my GM
car, and one thousand bucks for them.
--
Jim in NC

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Roger (K8RI) writes:

Unfortunately due to regulations and cost GA in Europe is a mere
shadow of what we see in the US.

Which is worrisome, given how it is dwindling in the U.S.


Wrong again


Bertie