Tricky examiners

One local Test Officer has a reputation of asking PPL candidates to "keep
going, lets see if make it" during the simulated forced landing to a
paddock in the exam. Drop below 500 AGL and BAM ...... test over.

As the PIC you aren't allowed below 500' (unless taking off, landing,
training for a rating or crashing), and you have shown poor judgement in
allowing your "passenger" to goad you into low flying.

Tough but real worldish.

Well, your premise is incorrect. As the PIC you are allowed to fly from
California to Maine with your wheels an inch above the terrain so long as
you 91.119(c) stay 500' away from any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

And they aren't a "Test Officer". They are a Designated Examiner. Somehow
I think this is a troll thread. Name the guy. Name the FSDO from which he
operates.

Until then, I suggest we let this thread drop.



Where I live, when you take an automobile driving test you are told
clearly
at the start "the examiner *will never ask you to do anything illegal*".

Is this not the case for a PPL exam? If so, I'm astounded.
That could lead to some very dangerous situations.


As a retired examiner, I can tell you that you cannot ask or require the
examinee to do anything illegal. Now he can ASK would you fly below xxx
altitude around here? And if the answer was yes and clearly illegal, then
you are correct, exam over. But to trick, coerce, or otherwise act as the
cop behind the billboard is clearly against FAA ops standards.

Jim

RST Engineering wrote:
One local Test Officer has a reputation of asking PPL candidates to "keep
going, lets see if make it" during the simulated forced landing to a
paddock in the exam. Drop below 500 AGL and BAM ...... test over.

As the PIC you aren't allowed below 500' (unless taking off, landing,
training for a rating or crashing), and you have shown poor judgement in
allowing your "passenger" to goad you into low flying.

Tough but real worldish.

Well, your premise is incorrect. As the PIC you are allowed to fly from
California to Maine with your wheels an inch above the terrain so long as
you 91.119(c) stay 500' away from any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

And they aren't a "Test Officer". They are a Designated Examiner. Somehow
I think this is a troll thread. Name the guy. Name the FSDO from which he
operates.

Until then, I suggest we let this thread drop.


Where I live, when you take an automobile driving test you are told
clearly
at the start "the examiner *will never ask you to do anything illegal*".

Is this not the case for a PPL exam? If so, I'm astounded.
That could lead to some very dangerous situations.


As a retired examiner, I can tell you that you cannot ask or require the
examinee to do anything illegal. Now he can ASK would you fly below xxx
altitude around here? And if the answer was yes and clearly illegal, then
you are correct, exam over. But to trick, coerce, or otherwise act as the
cop behind the billboard is clearly against FAA ops standards.

Jim


I agree. I've known many examiners through my career in aviation both
designated and FAA. I've known very few what I would call "bad" examiners.
Many examiners develop their pet ways of stressing this or that with an
applicant, but I can't remember ever dealing with an examiner who used
illegal or even devious means to make an applicant fail a flight test.
In fact, many of the examiners I knew and know today are the type who
enjoy the work to the point where once a decision has been made that the
applicant will pass the flight test, they will use the remaining time to
"teach" a bit and share with the applicant the good feelings associated
with the moment of passing the flight test.

--
Dudley Henriques

"RST Engineering" wrote

Sorry Jim, I should have prefaced my post with "In Australia".


Well, your premise is incorrect. As the PIC you are allowed to fly from
California to Maine with your wheels an inch above the terrain so long as
you 91.119(c) stay 500' away from any person, vessel, vehicle, or
structure.

As mentioned in another part of the discussion, here in the Land of Oz we
have a rule (CAR 157) that you can't fly below 500' AGL unless:
- Landing, taking off etc.
- Stress of weather
- Undertaking training with an approved instructor
- You poses a low flight endorsement
- You're a crop duster pilot
- You're crashing

Btw, over populated area's it's 1000' ...... Australia, the land that
legislates the bleeding obvious!


And they aren't a "Test Officer". They are a Designated Examiner.

Down here they are a "(CASA) Approved Testing Officer" or ATO. CASA is the
Civil Aviation Safety Authority.
http://ioa.casa.gov.au/scripts/ATO.asp


Somehow I think this is a troll thread.

Nope, just a pilot with an opinion. Trolls try to stir up trouble and
"typically" morph their email address to make it hard to kill file them.


Name the guy. Name the FSDO from which he operates.

Nope, not gunna happen. Especially since I don't know what a FSDO is!


As a retired examiner, I can tell you that you cannot ask or require the
examinee to do anything illegal. Now he can ASK would you fly below xxx
altitude around here? And if the answer was yes and clearly illegal, then
you are correct, exam over.

Here in Oz it is illegal. I think we are in violent agreement!


Cheers,

David

--
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

"RST Engineering" wrote in
:


One local Test Officer has a reputation of asking PPL candidates to
"keep going, lets see if make it" during the simulated forced
landing to a paddock in the exam. Drop below 500 AGL and BAM ......
test over.

As the PIC you aren't allowed below 500' (unless taking off,
landing, training for a rating or crashing), and you have shown poor
judgement in allowing your "passenger" to goad you into low flying.

Tough but real worldish.

Well, your premise is incorrect. As the PIC you are allowed to fly
from California to Maine with your wheels an inch above the terrain so
long as you 91.119(c) stay 500' away from any person, vessel, vehicle,
or structure.

And they aren't a "Test Officer". They are a Designated Examiner.
Somehow I think this is a troll thread. Name the guy. Name the FSDO
from which he operates.


Uh, he's an Aussie.



As a retired examiner, I can tell you that you cannot ask or require
the examinee to do anything illegal.

Again, he's an Aussie


Bertie

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...

One local Test Officer has a reputation of asking PPL candidates to
"keep
going, lets see if make it" during the simulated forced landing to a
paddock in the exam. Drop below 500 AGL and BAM ...... test over.

As the PIC you aren't allowed below 500' (unless taking off, landing,
training for a rating or crashing), and you have shown poor judgement in
allowing your "passenger" to goad you into low flying.

Tough but real worldish.

Well, your premise is incorrect. As the PIC you are allowed to fly from
California to Maine with your wheels an inch above the terrain so long as
you 91.119(c) stay 500' away from any person, vessel, vehicle, or
structure.

And they aren't a "Test Officer". They are a Designated Examiner.
Somehow I think this is a troll thread. Name the guy. Name the FSDO from
which he operates.


California and Main are in the US. CFR 91.119(c)applies only to the US.
FDSO's only exist in the US and D.E is US terminology. If I recall correctly
the person you are quoting is from some other country where they are likely
to use other terminonolgy for things like this and the regulations are
likely to differ somewhat.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

Jim Stewart wrote:
I said, "you knew I could make it" He said
yeah, but if you ever have a planeload of
people and the engine stops, they will be
yelling and crying that "you're not going to
make it, we're all going to die". I wanted
to see what you'd do.


Obviously he's never had to do it. I have, and trust me, they won't make a
sound.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

I turned to final, made a nice approach and about
20' above the deck he ended the drill.

I said, "you knew I could make it" He said
yeah, but if you ever have a planeload of
people and the engine stops, they will be
yelling and crying that "you're not going to
make it, we're all going to die". I wanted
to see what you'd do.


You get yourself too high.. and you will not make it.. you'll dive with too
much speed.. and float in ground effect off the other end of a very short
runway.. seen it happen.

BT

On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 18:01:39 -0800, "BT" wrote:

You get yourself too high.. and you will not make it.. you'll dive with too
much speed.. and float in ground effect off the other end of a very short
runway.. seen it happen.

How high was the airplane? I can come down pretty quickly without diving
and increasing airspeed just by slipping.

So he'd have to be in a position where he was too low to do a 360, and too
high to do a controlled slip.
--ron

How high was the airplane? I can come down pretty quickly without diving
and increasing airspeed just by slipping.

So he'd have to be in a position where he was too low to do a 360, and too
high to do a controlled slip.
--ron

Yes "you" can "slip it in"... he did not even try to slip..

His head was definitely "up and locked" and he turned into a passenger as it
went through the far fence, no engine for a go around..
BT

On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:30:37 -0800, "BT" wrote:


How high was the airplane? I can come down pretty quickly without diving
and increasing airspeed just by slipping.

So he'd have to be in a position where he was too low to do a 360, and too
high to do a controlled slip.
--ron

Yes "you" can "slip it in"... he did not even try to slip..

His head was definitely "up and locked" and he turned into a passenger as it
went through the far fence, no engine for a go around..
BT


Well, I was responding to your statement, "...You get yourself too high..
and you will not make it.. " NOT realizing that you were only referring to
a particular pilot (or perhaps to a group of pilots who don't know how to
slip).

And you may well be correct that there are a lot of pilots who don't know
how to use a forward slip. I don't often fly with other pilots, but when I
do I am amazed at the shallow, power on approaches most opt for (VFR). I'd
rather have that extra altitude until landing is assured.
--ron