Wow

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in :

We had a couple of very windy days over here in Europe.
Look at a crosswind landing of an A320 at HAM, a near crash:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185

Nice pic:

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.fil...=phpOltUWB.jpg



Next time someone tries to tell you that airliners just "kick it straight"
when they land, like this guy did, show em this...



Bertie

I just sent this out this afternoon to our human factors people as an
example of how deeply a pilot has to fly into a problem before realizing
it isn't going to solve using existing control authority.
Absolutely amazing! This guy is on the way to a memo from the Chief
Pilot's office fairly soon I would imagine.
Glad they made it out of there.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in :

We had a couple of very windy days over here in Europe.
Look at a crosswind landing of an A320 at HAM, a near crash:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185

Nice pic:

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.file?id=536882887
&filename=phpOltUWB
.jpg



Next time someone tries to tell you that airliners just "kick it
straight" when they land, like this guy did, show em this...



Bertie

I just sent this out this afternoon to our human factors people as an
example of how deeply a pilot has to fly into a problem before
realizing it isn't going to solve using existing control authority.
Absolutely amazing! This guy is on the way to a memo from the Chief
Pilot's office fairly soon I would imagine.
Glad they made it out of there.


Well, he doesn't appear to have made any effort towards putting the wing
down at all. Not his fault.He was obviously never taught how to do a
crosswind landing properly. You'd be amazed at how many airline pilots
beleive that this is the way to do it... Mostly, they get away with it.
The crosswind doesn't appear to be all that bad. From the drift angle,
I'd reckon the max compnenet to be under thirty knots and steady. Well
within the airplane's capability. He wasn't realy in trouble until the
flare.

Bertie

Bertie

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message ...


Well, he doesn't appear to have made any effort towards putting the wing
down at all. Not his fault.He was obviously never taught how to do a
crosswind landing properly. You'd be amazed at how many airline pilots
beleive that this is the way to do it... Mostly, they get away with it.
The crosswind doesn't appear to be all that bad. From the drift angle,
I'd reckon the max compnenet to be under thirty knots and steady. Well
within the airplane's capability. He wasn't realy in trouble until the
flare.

Bertie

Bertie

Sounded gusty in the audio of the video...

"Blueskies" wrote in
. net:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...


Well, he doesn't appear to have made any effort towards putting the
wing down at all. Not his fault.He was obviously never taught how to
do a crosswind landing properly. You'd be amazed at how many airline
pilots beleive that this is the way to do it... Mostly, they get away
with it. The crosswind doesn't appear to be all that bad. From the
drift angle, I'd reckon the max compnenet to be under thirty knots
and steady. Well within the airplane's capability. He wasn't realy in
trouble until the flare.

Bertie

Bertie

Sounded gusty in the audio of the video...

Wel, the airplane is steady on the approach, so while there are surely
little variations in the wind, really gusty conditions would have either
the pilot or autopilot manipulating the airplane a bit more than that. He's
fine til he tries to kick it straight.



Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

"Blueskies" wrote in
. net:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...


Well, he doesn't appear to have made any effort towards putting the
wing down at all. Not his fault.He was obviously never taught how
to do a crosswind landing properly. You'd be amazed at how many
airline pilots beleive that this is the way to do it... Mostly,
they get away with it. The crosswind doesn't appear to be all that
bad. From the drift angle, I'd reckon the max compnenet to be
under thirty knots and steady. Well within the airplane's
capability. He wasn't realy in trouble until the flare.

Bertie

Bertie

Sounded gusty in the audio of the video...

Wel, the airplane is steady on the approach, so while there are
surely little variations in the wind, really gusty conditions would
have either the pilot or autopilot manipulating the airplane a bit
more than that. He's fine til he tries to kick it straight.



Bertie

The A320 has a crosswind landing limit of 33 kts gusting 38 kts

According to the data at the time, the wind was 35kts, gusting 55 kts.

The incident happened at 13:55 local time
The flight LH 044 (D-AIQP), an A320 from MUC (Munich)
The landing runway was 23 LOC-DME (ATIS gave no other option)
after the go-around the pilots elected runway 33 also LOC-DME approach
and landed safely but minus the left winglet...
immediately after the incident ATIS gave runway 23 and 33 as well

--
Oz Lander.
Straight and Level Down Under Forum.
http://www.straightandleveldownunder.net

Oz Lander wrote:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

"Blueskies" wrote in
. net:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...


Well, he doesn't appear to have made any effort towards putting
the wing down at all. Not his fault.He was obviously never
taught how to do a crosswind landing properly. You'd be amazed
at how many airline pilots beleive that this is the way to do
it... Mostly, they get away with it. The crosswind doesn't
appear to be all that bad. From the drift angle, I'd reckon the
max compnenet to be under thirty knots and steady. Well within
the airplane's capability. He wasn't realy in trouble until the
flare.
Bertie

Bertie

Sounded gusty in the audio of the video...

Wel, the airplane is steady on the approach, so while there are
surely little variations in the wind, really gusty conditions would
have either the pilot or autopilot manipulating the airplane a bit
more than that. He's fine til he tries to kick it straight.



Bertie

The A320 has a crosswind landing limit of 33 kts gusting 38 kts

According to the data at the time, the wind was 35kts, gusting 55 kts.

The incident happened at 13:55 local time
The flight LH 044 (D-AIQP), an A320 from MUC (Munich)
The landing runway was 23 LOC-DME (ATIS gave no other option)
after the go-around the pilots elected runway 33 also LOC-DME approach
and landed safely but minus the left winglet...
immediately after the incident ATIS gave runway 23 and 33 as well

For got the ATIS!
EDDH 011220Z 29028G48KT 9000 -SHRA FEW011 BKN014 07/05 Q0984 TEMPO
29035G55KT 4000 SHRA BKN008

--
Oz Lander.
Straight and Level Down Under Forum.
http://www.straightandleveldownunder.net

"Oz Lander" wrote in news:fqgu7o$2qk$1@news-
01.bur.connect.com.au:

Oz Lander wrote:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

"Blueskies" wrote in
. net:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...


Well, he doesn't appear to have made any effort towards putting
the wing down at all. Not his fault.He was obviously never
taught how to do a crosswind landing properly. You'd be amazed
at how many airline pilots beleive that this is the way to do
it... Mostly, they get away with it. The crosswind doesn't
appear to be all that bad. From the drift angle, I'd reckon the
max compnenet to be under thirty knots and steady. Well within
the airplane's capability. He wasn't realy in trouble until the
flare.
Bertie

Bertie

Sounded gusty in the audio of the video...

Wel, the airplane is steady on the approach, so while there are
surely little variations in the wind, really gusty conditions would
have either the pilot or autopilot manipulating the airplane a bit
more than that. He's fine til he tries to kick it straight.



Bertie

The A320 has a crosswind landing limit of 33 kts gusting 38 kts

According to the data at the time, the wind was 35kts, gusting 55
kts.

The incident happened at 13:55 local time
The flight LH 044 (D-AIQP), an A320 from MUC (Munich)
The landing runway was 23 LOC-DME (ATIS gave no other option)
after the go-around the pilots elected runway 33 also LOC-DME
approach
and landed safely but minus the left winglet...
immediately after the incident ATIS gave runway 23 and 33 as well

For got the ATIS!
EDDH 011220Z 29028G48KT 9000 -SHRA FEW011 BKN014 07/05 Q0984 TEMPO
29035G55KT 4000 SHRA BKN008


Well, it's not 90 degrees, though that'd only knock 15% off the figures,
and the 35 gusting 55 is a tempo. it;'s only the actual they're giving
on the approach that matters at the time and there's no way of finding
out what that was on th enet AFAIK, someone might.
It's immaterial, however. The drift angle as he crossed the threshold
wasn't excessive and it's pretty clear no attempt was made to put the
right wing down, which is what was needed. If he had the controls
crossed to nearly max and the drift was still excessive then he would
have been exceeding what was the practical limit for the airplane. He
didn't. It may be that he couldn't ( I've e-mailed an A320 driver of my
acquantence to find out) but the relevance to everyone else is, that
that is exactly what will happen to any airplane if you try and "kick it
straight" as you flare.


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Well, he doesn't appear to have made any effort towards putting the wing
down at all. Not his fault.He was obviously never taught how to do a
crosswind landing properly. You'd be amazed at how many airline pilots
beleive that this is the way to do it... Mostly, they get away with it.
The crosswind doesn't appear to be all that bad. From the drift angle,
I'd reckon the max compnenet to be under thirty knots and steady. Well
within the airplane's capability. He wasn't realy in trouble until the
flare.

I don't know if it's accurate or not, but I read that they were on
Runway 23 and the wind was 29029G43.

Shirl wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Well, he doesn't appear to have made any effort towards putting the
wing down at all. Not his fault.He was obviously never taught how to
do a crosswind landing properly. You'd be amazed at how many airline
pilots beleive that this is the way to do it... Mostly, they get away
with it. The crosswind doesn't appear to be all that bad. From the
drift angle, I'd reckon the max compnenet to be under thirty knots
and steady. Well within the airplane's capability. He wasn't realy in
trouble until the flare.

I don't know if it's accurate or not, but I read that they were on
Runway 23 and the wind was 29029G43.



Well, that makes the component about 25 gusting 37 across, which should be
manageable. Well, obviously it must be within demonstratd for the airplane
or he wouldn't have attempted the approach. The drift angle certainly gives
the appearance of a reasonable cosswind. I've been to Hamburg and it's flat
and 23 is pretty clear on the side of the runway the wind was blowing. I
wonder why they didn't use 31.


Bertie

I don't know if it's accurate or not, but I read that they were on
Runway 23 and the wind was 29029G43.


I'm confused about something as well. The photo indicates that he was on
RWY 33 and the reports indicate wind was out of 290. The video clearly
shows that he was crabbing to the right by as much as about 30 degrees.
The math doesn't add up, does it?

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.fil...=phpOltUWB.jpg

Either that, or the perspective is skewed in the photo and the "33-15" sign
doesn't correspond to his runway.

-c