Ammending logbooks

"Edward A. Falk" wrote in message
...
OK, new question: I put my logbooks (25 years worth) into a spreadsheet
program, and turned up a few errors in the process; mostly due to
misreading my own handwriting. In some columns, the error is as much
as 10 hours. Most of the errors are in my favor. Interestingly, there's
not a single mistake in the total flight time column.

How can I correct my logbook? One way might be to simply put the
corrected values at the bottom of the page next time I total up, but
I worry about having to explain the discontinuity to the next
examiner who's good at math.

Or should I put an entry into the logbook that says "these values
correct for errors in previous pages."?

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/


You can do anything you want. Just do it clearly and don't make it look
like you are covering anything up. I know that's not your intention. Also,
I'd initial all changes and make a note in the back of the log what you did.
That said, there is NO requirement anywhere in the regulations that say you
have to keep a total, running or otherwise, in your logbook. So, I don't
even add them up anymore. Let the spreadsheet do the work. You only need
to make a tally when asked such as with an 8710 application, insurance form,
etc. And it does not have to stay in your log. BTW, you can put anything
you want to in you logbook, backseat time, conversation time, all kinds of
experience you want to keep track of. The question is "what rows do you add
up to answer the questions on forms or by the examiner?". If you want to
keep track of other experience, that's your business. It's your log. Just
don't try to count it towards anything. (the extraneous stuff, that is).

--
BobF.

On Mar 5, 6:13 pm, "Bob F." wrote:
"Edward A. Falk" wrote in ...



OK, new question: I put my logbooks (25 years worth) into a spreadsheet
program, and turned up a few errors in the process; mostly due to
misreading my own handwriting. In some columns, the error is as much
as 10 hours. Most of the errors are in my favor. Interestingly, there's
not a single mistake in the total flight time column.

How can I correct my logbook? One way might be to simply put the
corrected values at the bottom of the page next time I total up, but
I worry about having to explain the discontinuity to the next
examiner who's good at math.

Or should I put an entry into the logbook that says "these values
correct for errors in previous pages."?

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

You can do anything you want. Just do it clearly and don't make it look
like you are covering anything up. I know that's not your intention. Also,
I'd initial all changes and make a note in the back of the log what you did.
That said, there is NO requirement anywhere in the regulations that say you
have to keep a total, running or otherwise, in your logbook. So, I don't
even add them up anymore. Let the spreadsheet do the work. You only need
to make a tally when asked such as with an 8710 application, insurance form,
etc. And it does not have to stay in your log. BTW, you can put anything
you want to in you logbook, backseat time, conversation time, all kinds of
experience you want to keep track of. The question is "what rows do you add
up to answer the questions on forms or by the examiner?". If you want to
keep track of other experience, that's your business. It's your log. Just
don't try to count it towards anything. (the extraneous stuff, that is).

--
BobF.

Excellent advice.

The only hours that must be logged are those required for a rating or
proficiency, or dual given as a CFI.


Dan

"Dan" wrote in message
...
On Mar 5, 6:13 pm, "Bob F." wrote:
"Edward A. Falk" wrote in
...



OK, new question: I put my logbooks (25 years worth) into a
spreadsheet
program, and turned up a few errors in the process; mostly due to
misreading my own handwriting. In some columns, the error is as much
as 10 hours. Most of the errors are in my favor. Interestingly,
there's
not a single mistake in the total flight time column.

How can I correct my logbook? One way might be to simply put the
corrected values at the bottom of the page next time I total up, but
I worry about having to explain the discontinuity to the next
examiner who's good at math.

Or should I put an entry into the logbook that says "these values
correct for errors in previous pages."?

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

You can do anything you want. Just do it clearly and don't make it look
like you are covering anything up. I know that's not your intention.
Also,
I'd initial all changes and make a note in the back of the log what you
did.
That said, there is NO requirement anywhere in the regulations that say
you
have to keep a total, running or otherwise, in your logbook. So, I don't
even add them up anymore. Let the spreadsheet do the work. You only
need
to make a tally when asked such as with an 8710 application, insurance
form,
etc. And it does not have to stay in your log. BTW, you can put
anything
you want to in you logbook, backseat time, conversation time, all kinds
of
experience you want to keep track of. The question is "what rows do you
add
up to answer the questions on forms or by the examiner?". If you want to
keep track of other experience, that's your business. It's your log.
Just
don't try to count it towards anything. (the extraneous stuff, that is).

--
BobF.

Excellent advice.

The only hours that must be logged are those required for a rating or
proficiency, or dual given as a CFI.

Dan


Absolutely right. I noticed you said logged, not tallied. It's interesting
about the CFI logging and often brought up at CFI refresher clinics. Do you
realize and the Instructor has no choice when he gives instruction to sign
your log? There's no vote! It is improper to ask "do you want me to sign
your log book", He must. One the other hand, there is no requirement for a
student to even have a log book (In many situations). There is also no
requirement to have a log book with you, so what's an instructor to do.
Well, when I run into the situation, I grab a scrap of paper, make the
notations and say "here, this is now part of your logbook". The only out
is, there is no TIME required to make the entry after instruction... today,
tomorrow and year from now... Anyhow, a small discontinuity in the regs.

--
BobF.

On Mar 5, 6:55 pm, "Bob F." wrote:

The only hours that must be logged are those required for a rating or
proficiency, or dual given as a CFI.

Dan

Absolutely right. I noticed you said logged, not tallied. It's interesting
about the CFI logging and often brought up at CFI refresher clinics. Do you
realize and the Instructor has no choice when he gives instruction to sign
your log? There's no vote! It is improper to ask "do you want me to sign
your log book", He must. One the other hand, there is no requirement for a
student to even have a log book (In many situations). There is also no
requirement to have a log book with you, so what's an instructor to do.
Well, when I run into the situation, I grab a scrap of paper, make the
notations and say "here, this is now part of your logbook". The only out
is, there is no TIME required to make the entry after instruction... today,
tomorrow and year from now... Anyhow, a small discontinuity in the regs.

--
BobF.

Hmmm..

I thought the only *required CFI log* is the CFI's own log of dual
given (to be kept 3 years).

In the case of the student with no log book -- the CFI cannot
comply...?


Dan

"Dan" wrote in message
...
On Mar 5, 6:55 pm, "Bob F." wrote:

The only hours that must be logged are those required for a rating or
proficiency, or dual given as a CFI.

Dan

Absolutely right. I noticed you said logged, not tallied. It's
interesting
about the CFI logging and often brought up at CFI refresher clinics. Do
you
realize and the Instructor has no choice when he gives instruction to
sign
your log? There's no vote! It is improper to ask "do you want me to
sign
your log book", He must. One the other hand, there is no requirement
for a
student to even have a log book (In many situations). There is also no
requirement to have a log book with you, so what's an instructor to do.
Well, when I run into the situation, I grab a scrap of paper, make the
notations and say "here, this is now part of your logbook". The only out
is, there is no TIME required to make the entry after instruction...
today,
tomorrow and year from now... Anyhow, a small discontinuity in the regs.

--
BobF.

Hmmm..

I thought the only *required CFI log* is the CFI's own log of dual
given (to be kept 3 years).


Sec. 61.189 - Flight instructor records.
(a) A flight instructor must sign the logbook of each person to whom that
instructor has given flight training or ground training.

and while we are at it:

(2) The name of each person that instructor has endorsed for a knowledge
test or practical test, and the record shall also indicate the kind of test,
the date, and the results.

This one means that when I recommend a candidate for a written test, I need
to track him down, get the results and record it. This one is often
overlook and I'll bet 90 % of the CFI's miss this. The "out" here is,
always do the sign off with your Ground Instrutor Certificate number, which
I always do. Guess what... no records required.


In the case of the student with no log book -- the CFI cannot
comply...?

That's the point I tried to make.


Dan






--
BobF.

On Mar 5, 7:08 pm, "Bob F." wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message

...



On Mar 5, 6:55 pm, "Bob F." wrote:

The only hours that must be logged are those required for a rating or
proficiency, or dual given as a CFI.

Dan

Absolutely right. I noticed you said logged, not tallied. It's
interesting
about the CFI logging and often brought up at CFI refresher clinics. Do
you
realize and the Instructor has no choice when he gives instruction to
sign
your log? There's no vote! It is improper to ask "do you want me to
sign
your log book", He must. One the other hand, there is no requirement
for a
student to even have a log book (In many situations). There is also no
requirement to have a log book with you, so what's an instructor to do.
Well, when I run into the situation, I grab a scrap of paper, make the
notations and say "here, this is now part of your logbook". The only out
is, there is no TIME required to make the entry after instruction...
today,
tomorrow and year from now... Anyhow, a small discontinuity in the regs.

--
BobF.

Hmmm..

I thought the only *required CFI log* is the CFI's own log of dual
given (to be kept 3 years).

Sec. 61.189 - Flight instructor records.
(a) A flight instructor must sign the logbook of each person to whom that
instructor has given flight training or ground training.

and while we are at it:

(2) The name of each person that instructor has endorsed for a knowledge
test or practical test, and the record shall also indicate the kind of test,
the date, and the results.

This one means that when I recommend a candidate for a written test, I need
to track him down, get the results and record it. This one is often
overlook and I'll bet 90 % of the CFI's miss this. The "out" here is,
always do the sign off with your Ground Instrutor Certificate number, which
I always do. Guess what... no records required.



In the case of the student with no log book -- the CFI cannot
comply...?

That's the point I tried to make.



Dan

--
BobF.

DOH!!

You are correct, Sir!

Has there been any legal decision clarifying the "when" the logbook
must be signed?

There must be some case that established that by now...

Dan

I thought the only *required CFI log* is the CFI's own log of dual
given (to be kept 3 years).

Sec. 61.189 - Flight instructor records.
(a) A flight instructor must sign the logbook of each person to whom that
instructor has given flight training or ground training.

and while we are at it:

(2) The name of each person that instructor has endorsed for a knowledge
test or practical test, and the record shall also indicate the kind of
test,
the date, and the results.

This one means that when I recommend a candidate for a written test, I
need
to track him down, get the results and record it. This one is often
overlook and I'll bet 90 % of the CFI's miss this. The "out" here is,
always do the sign off with your Ground Instrutor Certificate number,
which
I always do. Guess what... no records required.

In the case of the student with no log book -- the CFI cannot
comply...?

That's the point I tried to make.

Dan
--
BobF.

DOH!!

You are correct, Sir!

Has there been any legal decision clarifying the "when" the logbook
must be signed?

There must be some case that established that by now...

Dan


None that I know of. I guess it's never been point for litigation.

--
BobF.