Landing without flaps

buttman wrote in news:16caa1d3-b06b-4d42-86a3-
:



I don't need a name. I'm not here to make a name for myself, or draw
attention to my character. I'm here to learn more about flying. Thats
it.


You sure fooled me.


Bertie

buttman wrote in news:622b77e4-399c-4580-8599-
:

On 7 Mar, 19:22, Dudley Henriques wrote:

How's that? Learned something?:-)

--
Dudley Henriques

No because you did not teach anything. "This is how it is" is not
teaching, it's telling.

Anyways, the topic of discussion has never been about "is it OK to
starve fuel on takeoff". Even if it was, its not a matter of "yes" or
"no"


Evasion noted


Bertie

buttman wrote in news:f55fccd5-a3bd-4514-97b4-
:

On 7 Mar, 19:31, Dudley Henriques wrote:

Interesting. Why not discuss right here exactly what it is you don't
agree with? I'm friendly and willing :-))) Let's see where we differ
on
things related to flying.
Can't be more fair than this?

--
Dudley Henriques

OK. For starters, I believe there is only one thing in the world that
can be objectively considered "unsafe". And that one and only thing is
being unprepared. No matter what it is, it can be done safely as long
as the peoper precautions are made. Whether it be doing aerobatics
10ft above the ground, barrel rolling a 737, flying over max gross,
cleaning a loaded gun, jumping the grand canyon on a morotcycle, etc
etc. You seem to believe safety is determined by who-the-hell-knows-
what.



I know what.


Most people do.

You do not and you just admitted it.


Bertie

buttman wrote in
:

On 7 Mar, 20:26, Dudley Henriques wrote:
buttman wrote:
On 7 Mar, 19:56, Dudley Henriques wrote:
buttman wrote:
On 7 Mar, 19:31, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Interesting. Why not discuss right here exactly what it is you
don't agree with? I'm friendly and willing :-))) Let's see where
we differ on things related to flying.
Can't be more fair than this?
--
Dudley Henriques
OK. For starters, I believe there is only one thing in the world
that can be objectively considered "unsafe". And that one and
only thing is being unprepared. No matter what it is, it can be
done safely as long as the peoper precautions are made. Whether
it be doing aerobatics 10ft above the ground, barrel rolling a
737, flying over max gross, cleaning a loaded gun, jumping the
grand canyon on a morotcycle, etc etc. You seem to believe safety
is determined by who-the-hell-knows- what.
Theres more, but thats a good starting point.
Are you back from the FAA office yet Butts? Then we'll talk
flying, and not before.
Avoiding the task I gave you by changing the subject and trying to
engage won't work.
You DON'T starve an engine on takeoff on a student...EVER!!
Now go see what the FAA says about this and I'll discuss anything
you wish.

--
Dudley Henriques

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi

Butts;

Another poster said it and I agree. It's getting out of hand. I'm as
guilty as you are. It's drawing in old advasaries on all sides and
isn't healthy for the forum. Let's end this right now with no further
comment good or bad.
I'm sorry for my part in it. Neither one of us is going to solve
anything flight safety wise going this route.
Let's just end it and let it go.
Best to you

--
Dudley Henriques

Taking your ball and going home: not just for 10 year olds anymore!


I'm still here!



Wanna play?


Bertie

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in news:4e85f758-faf7-
:

On Mar 7, 5:01 pm, wrote:
On Mar 7, 1:02 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:

Dud, you've never been in an airplane, and you're
NOT an instructor. I'm a prof teacher and I can
sniff your bad **** off the net, you're a phony!

If Dudley or Bertie are frauds, they are very, very good frauds.
The terminology and all other aspects of their posts regarding
aviation and learning to fly are accurate and perceptive. There would
be few folks who could come up with this stuff unless they were
savants of some sort. Those of us who actually fly have little
argument with most of what they say.
There are some other posters here who were obvious frauds from
the start. And the more they post, the deeper they dig their holes of
discredit. They're just incredible.

Anybody can sound good on the net where knowledge
is concerned, but you can't fake an attitude for long.

Pulling mixture or fooling with fuel valves immediately after
takeoff is asking to die. Soon.

No not really, Mr. Buttman is not a suicidal maniac
and one has to presume if the pilot didn't react
properly he take control and have that figured out.

Pulling the throttle has the same
engine-loss effect without the extreme risk associated with killing
the engine. Pulling mixture or fuel also carries
the more remote risk of a control failure, whereby the mixture
control
cable or fuel valve linkage breaks at that exact moment, making a
recovery of the engine impossible.

Sure that can happen. I suppose that's part of the
point of Mr. Buttman's suggested exercise.

In the last 15 years or so we've
had a throttle cable failure and a carb heat cable failure, so now we
replace all the controls when we replace the engine. There's no legal
requirement to do it, but after seeing old controls break I decided
that it was going to get done.
Dan

My personal fear is loosing elevator control, it's
very rare, but that Alaska Air crash a few years
back (in the Pacific) was blamed on the screw
that adjusts the elevator getting stripped or jammed.
Ken


Hey, maybe buttboi will pull the cotter pins on the elevaotr hinges to
help you get over it.



Great fan club you got there Buttboi.


Bertie

wrote in news:9e39b7ff-bac6-4276-919e-
:

On Mar 7, 1:02 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:

Dud, you've never been in an airplane, and you're
NOT an instructor. I'm a prof teacher and I can
sniff your bad **** off the net, you're a phony!

If Dudley or Bertie are frauds, they are very, very good frauds.
The terminology and all other aspects of their posts regarding
aviation and learning to fly are accurate and perceptive. There would
be few folks who could come up with this stuff unless they were
savants of some sort.


I'm thinking of coming back as an aviation savant in my next life.
Or maybe a wrestling manager, I haven't decided yet.




Bertie

WJRFlyBoy wrote in
:

On 08 Mar 2008 01:39:36 GMT, Robert Moore wrote:

Since I don't post a lot pure bull****, I have no need to
hide my identity behind some childish name.
snipped personal ID

Robert, this is never a good idea although I know you mean well, keep
your personal ID off Usenet.

Ah, some people are immune. He's right. He keeps it honorable and doesn't
bother with kooks so I can;t see him having difficulty. OTOH, you just
never know for sure...



Bertie

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in news:84cd2ed7-0d0a-
:

On Mar 7, 2:12 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
...
Mr. Buttman (appropriately) raised the question
of engine failure at rotation or ascent, I'd like him
as an instructor. Why, because he's strict.
As a prof teacher, I happen to know that a suggested
lesson should be weighed by it's merits by his peers,
and you "dud" are not near in his class, otherwise
you would have discussed the issue of anomally
in that T-O circumstance.
And that's how I know the "dud" is a web-phony.

"dud" is CHECKMATED by
Ken S. Tucker
PS: Now predicably "dud" or his "bertie" sidekick
will engage in the usual name calling, to avoid the
issue.

Tucker, you just CAN'T be this uninformed :-))

Of course I'm "uninformed", Mr. Buttman helped
make me aware of that. To often I've read about
a small plane crashing at or near Take-Off killing
all on board. Sometimes witnesses claim that the
engine quit, other times there is no good certain
explanation.

Every pilot is elated to ascend following rotation,
but what should you do if your engine sputters
and quits while climbing at just a few hundred feet.

Off hand I'd suggest pushing the yoke forward to
use decent to prevent stall, because the stall can
happen real fast in that attitude, so be prepared.
((Don't freeze like a deer in head lights)).

Glide back to the runway or have knowledge of a
safe alternative and use it.


God I love usenet.


Bertie

WingFlaps wrote in
:

On Mar 7, 11:24*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
WingFlaps wrote
innews:a529f378-4eb7-42f4-b8eb-5fce8
:





On Mar 6, 8:49*am, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
On Mar 5, 6:17 am, Gig 601XL Builder
wrote:

Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 4, 7:35 pm, george wrote:
On Mar 5, 4:06 pm, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

You noticed that too huh??? :-)))) Well, I guess the extra
weight he
lps
to get that ole airplane down again on the remaining runway
when you

pull that ole mixture back on a student right after rotation
:-))))
I still can't believe that some-one claiming to be a pilot
made the 'pull mixture on takeoff' statement and is still
here

What's a typo, or it there a reason?

BTW, here's a video of that x-wind landing...
http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/309221
(It ****es me off it's an amateur video, for the price
of a bit of tape, one would think all landings should
be properly video taped, cheap ****in' ****s).

Anyway, the rudder steering seems odd to me,
based on squinty frame advance...grrrr.
Ken

Weren't you the guy that was also suggesting that the runway be
subject to a walk down before every take-off?

For major airports, radar is being developed,
but I think dogs could do it faster and better.

Hey that was my idea! Do you like it really? I worry though, will
dog **** on the airport runway be a problem when projected by jet
blast? What do you think?

Well, obviously they would wear diapers.

Damn, you are smart. Depends or huggies?


We'll have to get a $4,000,000 research grant and try both.



Bertie

Robert Moore wrote:
WingFlaps wrote
I don't think you got the scenario buttman was suggesting. He proposed
to secretly pull the fuel cut off as the plane started to roll. The
danger was that he had no idea when the engine would cut and there
would be no way of recovering a student error with power.

At takeoff power, when the mixture is placed to cut-off, the engine
will quit "right now". What you say might be true if the fuel valve
is used instead of the mixture control.

Bob Moore

It WAS the fuel valve he was using. The phrase "cutting the mixture" has
been used in the discussion only generically.

--
Dudley Henriques