Audio of Lancaster Under nightfighter attack

"Dave Holford" wrote in message
...
I have been following this discussion with some interest and I also feel
that the recording is unlikely to be genuine. Not only is the lack of
noise a problem; I also have some difficulty in believing that the disc
cutting machinery at that time was capable of being sufficiently
isolated from the considerable vibration and G-forces due to combat
maneouvring.

Doctored, or even completely phony information for propaganda purposes
(and let's face it this was pure propaganda) were, and still are,
common. I used to have a recording of famous wartime speeches by
Churchill and other WWII leaders and on the notes was the comment that
some of the cuts were re-recordings due to the poor quality, or total
lack, of original recordings. Unfortunately I transferred this to tape
many years ago and no longer have the liner notes with the details, but
I am quite certain that at least one of them was a well known speech by
Churchill which was re-recorded in a BBC studio.

I'm tempted to consign this to the collection of "official" items
containing such things as "Cats Eyes Cunningham" and his carrots, which
was widely believed at the time; and probably still is by some.

It would seem likely that at least one person involved in this recording
is still alive and could provide the truth - unless it is covered by the
Official Secrets Act, as much WWII detail apparently still is.

Dave

I have to agree - only with modern DSP "anti-noise" technology could you
have filtered out all the engine noise.

Maybe a recording was attempted, found to be unuseable, and the resulting
script was then re-recorded in the studio. I don't think this was an attempt
to deceive though, just common practice at the time, as per Churchill's
speeches.

- Michael

"MichaelJP" wrote:


Maybe a recording was attempted, found to be unuseable, and the resulting
script was then re-recorded in the studio. I don't think this was an attempt
to deceive though, just common practice at the time, as per Churchill's
speeches.

- Michael

Certainly sounds plausable...

(sorry, couldn't resist)



--

-Gord.

In message , MichaelJP
writes

snip


I have to agree - only with modern DSP "anti-noise" technology could you
have filtered out all the engine noise.

Maybe a recording was attempted, found to be unuseable, and the resulting
script was then re-recorded in the studio. I don't think this was an attempt
to deceive though, just common practice at the time, as per Churchill's
speeches.

I put these points to a B/C ng group and several interesting points
emerged:

One poster said.

Quote:

Lip ribbon mics were first developed in 1937, so presumably they would
have been available for this application in the war. Not only is the
ribbon just 6cm or so from the speaker's mouth, but they have
considerable LF cutoff to counter the proximity effect. This would have
greatly reduced the very deep engine noise of a Lanc.

AIUI, aircraft comms of the day used carbon mic inserts.

The reported uselessness of the intercom does not necessarily mean that
the intercom's mics were overwhelmed with engine noise. It might have
been that the overwhelming occurred between the earphones and the ear.
This seems plausible, because the SPL of speech is much higher in front
of the speaker's mouth than adjacent to the listener's ear.

A day or two ago there was something on the telly - I can't for the life
of me remember what - in which the presenter was doing a piece to camera
in a light aircraft using a lip ribbon mic. There was very little
background noise audible.

I once did a radio interview with someone while standing next to the
main engines in a cross-channel ferry. (They have cylinders the size of
dustbins.) We were both wearing ear defenders, and had to lip read to
communicate with each other, but the speech on the recording - made
using an omni mic very close up - was perfectly intelligible. The
background noise on the tape was considerable, but the engines were
bigger and closer than those on a Lancaster bomber, and we didn't use a
lip ribbon mic.

It's also interesting to note that in the recording which contains
machine gun fire, as the Lanc shoots down a German fighter, that gunfire
is much louder than the engine noise.

On this basis, I think the Wynford V-T recording could perfectly well be
genuine.

Endquote.

He raises several very good points here, I believe.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell