The new Fork Tailed Doctor Killer

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:17:19 -0400, Roger
wrote:

In these planes you have to have "It *all* together". Piloting
skills, attitude, judgmental skills, and weather knowledge must all be
present and polished.

I've spent many hours just mucking around in marginal conditions in a
Cherokee 180 and in the Deb. In the Cherokee I could almost always
say, "well it looks like it's getting a bit thicker and worse ahead so
we'd better turn around" While in the Deb at near 200 MPH it basically
goes from marginal to "where'd everything go?" in the blink of an eye.
Even being able to file you still have to have every thing ready and
the mind set to fly IFR. When I say being ready to file I mean
*competent* and polished not just current.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


Well said.

To accomplish such polished competency requires regular use and
maintenance. I'd say a minimum of a cross country flight or more
weekly.

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:17:19 -0400, Roger
wrote:

In these planes you have to have "It *all* together". Piloting
skills, attitude, judgmental skills, and weather knowledge must all be
present and polished.

I've spent many hours just mucking around in marginal conditions in a
Cherokee 180 and in the Deb. In the Cherokee I could almost always
say, "well it looks like it's getting a bit thicker and worse ahead so
we'd better turn around" While in the Deb at near 200 MPH it basically
goes from marginal to "where'd everything go?" in the blink of an eye.
Even being able to file you still have to have every thing ready and
the mind set to fly IFR. When I say being ready to file I mean
*competent* and polished not just current.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


Well said.

To accomplish such polished competency requires regular use and
maintenance. I'd say a minimum of a cross country flight or more
weekly.


The cross country is the easy part. It's working the pattern and the
airplane at and near the left side of the envelope in all configurations
that really completes the currency picture.
These airplanes require their pilots to simply go out and PRACTICE with
them perhaps more than they do.

--
Dudley Henriques

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:49:23 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:17:19 -0400, Roger
wrote:

In these planes you have to have "It *all* together". Piloting
skills, attitude, judgmental skills, and weather knowledge must all be
present and polished.

I've spent many hours just mucking around in marginal conditions in a
Cherokee 180 and in the Deb. In the Cherokee I could almost always
say, "well it looks like it's getting a bit thicker and worse ahead so
we'd better turn around" While in the Deb at near 200 MPH it basically
goes from marginal to "where'd everything go?" in the blink of an eye.
Even being able to file you still have to have every thing ready and
the mind set to fly IFR. When I say being ready to file I mean
*competent* and polished not just current.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


Well said.

To accomplish such polished competency requires regular use and
maintenance. I'd say a minimum of a cross country flight or more
weekly.

I think it depends on the pilot and the pilot's relationship with the
specific plane.


Here I agree with Dudley. Unless you are out in "weather" that is
beating the snot out of you the cross county , even in the clouds can
be relatively relaxed and even hand flown although that begins to
become tiresome after a couple of hours and that 's the time you are
going to need to be your sharpest. It's flying those new approaches
with the little unexpected things popping up that really build up the
polish.

The cross country is the easy part. It's working the pattern and the
airplane at and near the left side of the envelope in all configurations
that really completes the currency picture.
These airplanes require their pilots to simply go out and PRACTICE with
them perhaps more than they do.

PERHAPS? :-))

I think "purely personal opinion" based on 1300 hours in the Deb over
the last 12 years, these aren't exactly forgiving airplanes. They may
be pussycats (OK Streak excepted) compared to the big military
fighters, but they do not suffer lack of proficiency well.:-)) The
pilot really needs to know just about everything there is to know
about the specific plane when coming in to land be it an approach or
VFR pattern and they have to be flexible. Side step, circle to land,
missed and published holds, going missed on ATC's command, traffic
avoidance, doing things without hesitation or having to stop and
think. And this is assuming every thing works.:-)) Are we tilting a
little, do I have the leans, or is the AI dying? Man, what a time to
go partial panel.

Joining the ILS right at the outer marker when you have a tail wind of
20 or 30 knots (90 degrees to the localizer) really messes up your
nice turns.

Follow the guy ahead and expect the visual. Eh? I can't see the guy
ahead or the airport and I'm supposed to FOLLOW HIM? (Ben there,
done that ) Ahhhh... Approach, I can't see the twin ahead or the
airport. It's solid IMC up here. OK, maintain heading (what ever),
expect vectors to the visual on 09.

Circle left for the visual to 27. Say what? There's a whole string
of airliners departing 09. Oh! Then circle right for 09. I think
they do that just to see if you are paying attention.

And multitasking. Why is it that approach always manages to squeeze a
5 minute transmission into 20 seconds telling you what to do for the
next 15 minutes right at the outer marker when you are busier than a
cat covering crap on a marble floor and hauling dirt two miles. This
can be particularly interesting if there is only one ILS, it has a
tail wind of 20 knots and you have to circle to land WHILE departing
traffic is going the other direction.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:49:23 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:17:19 -0400, Roger
wrote:

In these planes you have to have "It *all* together". Piloting
skills, attitude, judgmental skills, and weather knowledge must all be
present and polished.

I've spent many hours just mucking around in marginal conditions in a
Cherokee 180 and in the Deb. In the Cherokee I could almost always
say, "well it looks like it's getting a bit thicker and worse ahead so
we'd better turn around" While in the Deb at near 200 MPH it basically
goes from marginal to "where'd everything go?" in the blink of an eye.
Even being able to file you still have to have every thing ready and
the mind set to fly IFR. When I say being ready to file I mean
*competent* and polished not just current.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Well said.

To accomplish such polished competency requires regular use and
maintenance. I'd say a minimum of a cross country flight or more
weekly.

I think it depends on the pilot and the pilot's relationship with the
specific plane.

Here I agree with Dudley. Unless you are out in "weather" that is
beating the snot out of you the cross county , even in the clouds can
be relatively relaxed and even hand flown although that begins to
become tiresome after a couple of hours and that 's the time you are
going to need to be your sharpest. It's flying those new approaches
with the little unexpected things popping up that really build up the
polish.

The cross country is the easy part. It's working the pattern and the
airplane at and near the left side of the envelope in all configurations
that really completes the currency picture.
These airplanes require their pilots to simply go out and PRACTICE with
them perhaps more than they do.

PERHAPS? :-))

I think "purely personal opinion" based on 1300 hours in the Deb over
the last 12 years, these aren't exactly forgiving airplanes. They may
be pussycats (OK Streak excepted) compared to the big military
fighters, but they do not suffer lack of proficiency well.:-)) The
pilot really needs to know just about everything there is to know
about the specific plane when coming in to land be it an approach or
VFR pattern and they have to be flexible. Side step, circle to land,
missed and published holds, going missed on ATC's command, traffic
avoidance, doing things without hesitation or having to stop and
think. And this is assuming every thing works.:-)) Are we tilting a
little, do I have the leans, or is the AI dying? Man, what a time to
go partial panel.

Joining the ILS right at the outer marker when you have a tail wind of
20 or 30 knots (90 degrees to the localizer) really messes up your
nice turns.

Follow the guy ahead and expect the visual. Eh? I can't see the guy
ahead or the airport and I'm supposed to FOLLOW HIM? (Ben there,
done that ) Ahhhh... Approach, I can't see the twin ahead or the
airport. It's solid IMC up here. OK, maintain heading (what ever),
expect vectors to the visual on 09.

Circle left for the visual to 27. Say what? There's a whole string
of airliners departing 09. Oh! Then circle right for 09. I think
they do that just to see if you are paying attention.

And multitasking. Why is it that approach always manages to squeeze a
5 minute transmission into 20 seconds telling you what to do for the
next 15 minutes right at the outer marker when you are busier than a
cat covering crap on a marble floor and hauling dirt two miles. This
can be particularly interesting if there is only one ILS, it has a
tail wind of 20 knots and you have to circle to land WHILE departing
traffic is going the other direction.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
This is all true, and leans heavily into the IFR experience for all
airplanes, especially the high performance aircraft.
What I had in mind was much more basic; the getting out there and
practicing with the airplane in the area where a lot of the accidents
actually happen.....basic flying.

--
Dudley Henriques

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:41:05 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Roger wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:49:23 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:


And multitasking. Why is it that approach always manages to squeeze a
5 minute transmission into 20 seconds telling you what to do for the
next 15 minutes right at the outer marker when you are busier than a
cat covering crap on a marble floor and hauling dirt two miles. This
can be particularly interesting if there is only one ILS, it has a
tail wind of 20 knots and you have to circle to land WHILE departing
traffic is going the other direction.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
This is all true, and leans heavily into the IFR experience for all
airplanes, especially the high performance aircraft.
What I had in mind was much more basic; the getting out there and
practicing with the airplane in the area where a lot of the accidents
actually happen.....basic flying.

Agreed. If the pilot is proficient enough to do the approaches,
holds, and other *stuff* dished out by ATC around the airports (IE
maneuvers under a heavy work load) the cross country part should be
easy.

I would think the majority of accidents occur while maneuvering near
the airports regardless of whether the pilot is flying a Cessna 172 or
a Cirrus SR-22. Things just happen faster and the workload is higher
in the high performance stuff.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger wrote:
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:41:05 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Roger wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:49:23 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:


And multitasking. Why is it that approach always manages to squeeze a
5 minute transmission into 20 seconds telling you what to do for the
next 15 minutes right at the outer marker when you are busier than a
cat covering crap on a marble floor and hauling dirt two miles. This
can be particularly interesting if there is only one ILS, it has a
tail wind of 20 knots and you have to circle to land WHILE departing
traffic is going the other direction.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
This is all true, and leans heavily into the IFR experience for all
airplanes, especially the high performance aircraft.
What I had in mind was much more basic; the getting out there and
practicing with the airplane in the area where a lot of the accidents
actually happen.....basic flying.

Agreed. If the pilot is proficient enough to do the approaches,
holds, and other *stuff* dished out by ATC around the airports (IE
maneuvers under a heavy work load) the cross country part should be
easy.

I would think the majority of accidents occur while maneuvering near
the airports regardless of whether the pilot is flying a Cessna 172 or
a Cirrus SR-22. Things just happen faster and the workload is higher
in the high performance stuff.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Something our human factors accident workgroup came up with early on is
the tie in between accidents and a breakdown in the basics somewhere in
the accident chain .
On the face of this statement, this might seem obvious, but it's
amazing how this link shows up under scrutiny in every accident
involving human factors.

--
Dudley Henriques

On Mar 21, 8:27 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:


Something our human factors accident workgroup came up with early on is
the tie in between accidents and a breakdown in the basics somewhere in
the accident chain .
On the face of this statement, this might seem obvious, but it's
amazing how this link shows up under scrutiny in every accident
involving human factors.

--
Dudley Henriques

The dangerous reality about the accident chain is that many pilots get
away with just this one tiny thing over and over.

Nothing breeds complacency like unexpected success.


Dan Mc

I had an interesting event years ago with an owner of a light twin who took
off from FXE to go to PMP, just after lift off, reach down to pull the gear
up, stopped and said, "you know what, It's only 7 miles to PMP, I'm just
going to leave the gear down". Ok, sounds ok to me. There was a quick call
to PMP, two turns later and we are downwind. He does a GUMPS check and
RETRACTS the gear. I said to myself, this is going to be interesting. He's
trying to slow the airplane down but hasn't put it together that he just got
rid of a lot of drag. He turns final, still over speed, and I ask him to
do another GUMP check and he misses it again. Halfway down final I tell him
to call the tower and tell him we are going around. He does, initiates a go
around procedure and this time, on climb out, realizes the gear is already
up. What a surprise look on his face. So after we got on the ground and
started talking about this, we wondered what it was that he was actually
training himself to do. He was not correlating gear up - take off, gear
down -landing. Nor was he correlating "three green - gear down". All he was
training himself to do was to "flip the switch into the other position". We
talked about using rituals in order to reduce accidents, like when you take
off, bring the gear up, no matter how close the next landing will be. I
also have never heard of one of my students land gear up since I teach 3
checks. 1 full check list before pattern, 2 enter pattern GUMPS list, and 3
short final say "three green".
--
Regards, BobF.
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Roger wrote:
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:41:05 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Roger wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:49:23 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:


And multitasking. Why is it that approach always manages to squeeze a
5 minute transmission into 20 seconds telling you what to do for the
next 15 minutes right at the outer marker when you are busier than a
cat covering crap on a marble floor and hauling dirt two miles. This
can be particularly interesting if there is only one ILS, it has a
tail wind of 20 knots and you have to circle to land WHILE departing
traffic is going the other direction.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
This is all true, and leans heavily into the IFR experience for all
airplanes, especially the high performance aircraft.
What I had in mind was much more basic; the getting out there and
practicing with the airplane in the area where a lot of the accidents
actually happen.....basic flying.

Agreed. If the pilot is proficient enough to do the approaches,
holds, and other *stuff* dished out by ATC around the airports (IE
maneuvers under a heavy work load) the cross country part should be
easy.

I would think the majority of accidents occur while maneuvering near
the airports regardless of whether the pilot is flying a Cessna 172 or
a Cirrus SR-22. Things just happen faster and the workload is higher
in the high performance stuff.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Something our human factors accident workgroup came up with early on is
the tie in between accidents and a breakdown in the basics somewhere in
the accident chain .
On the face of this statement, this might seem obvious, but it's amazing
how this link shows up under scrutiny in every accident involving human
factors.

--
Dudley Henriques

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:27:01 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Roger wrote:
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:41:05 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Roger wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:49:23 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:


And multitasking. Why is it that approach always manages to squeeze a
5 minute transmission into 20 seconds telling you what to do for the
next 15 minutes right at the outer marker when you are busier than a
cat covering crap on a marble floor and hauling dirt two miles. This
can be particularly interesting if there is only one ILS, it has a
tail wind of 20 knots and you have to circle to land WHILE departing
traffic is going the other direction.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
This is all true, and leans heavily into the IFR experience for all
airplanes, especially the high performance aircraft.
What I had in mind was much more basic; the getting out there and
practicing with the airplane in the area where a lot of the accidents
actually happen.....basic flying.

Agreed. If the pilot is proficient enough to do the approaches,
holds, and other *stuff* dished out by ATC around the airports (IE
maneuvers under a heavy work load) the cross country part should be
easy.

I would think the majority of accidents occur while maneuvering near
the airports regardless of whether the pilot is flying a Cessna 172 or
a Cirrus SR-22. Things just happen faster and the workload is higher
in the high performance stuff.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Something our human factors accident workgroup came up with early on is
the tie in between accidents and a breakdown in the basics somewhere in
the accident chain .
On the face of this statement, this might seem obvious, but it's
amazing how this link shows up under scrutiny in every accident
involving human factors.

On a few occasions I've had instructors push me to my limits and even
to the breaking point. Not as a primary student, but flying
instruments and flight reviews. These came about when I did
particularly well. On a review it was "Hey! Let's keep going for a
while if it's OK with you" after we'd done everything.

One was while working on my instrument rating when I was ready to go
take the PTS. We spent 2 1/2 hours partial panel doing timed turns to
a heading, timed climbing and descending turns to a heading AND
altitude, Timed climbing and descending turns (at constant airspeeds)
to intercept radials or courses inbound and outbound. All of this
was done using one nav (VOR or ADF) and one com and as I said, partial
panel.
Oh, one step down hold to the approach over an NDB and one VOR entered
from a hold and these included the published missed. That sounds
like a lot to do in 2 1/2 hours but this stuff was combined and we
went directly from one to the next. The only real breather was after
the missed on the NDB I had about 6 minutes to rest up before the VOR
hold course reversal.:-)) No way could I do that today.

Given the proper conditions be they physical, psychological, flight
conditions, or aircraft we can all reach out limits sooner or later
and these limits can vary widely. Hitting mental overload is a very
humbling experience and I think a good experience as well if done
under controlled conditions. Like the "vertigo chair", none of us are
completely immune. :-))

I was rung out after that one but I was still flying OK.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Mar 20, 2:07*am, Roger wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:49:23 -0400, Dudley Henriques





wrote:
Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:17:19 -0400, Roger
wrote:

In these planes you have to have "It *all* together". *Piloting
skills, attitude, judgmental skills, and weather knowledge must all be
present and polished.

I've spent many hours just mucking around in marginal conditions in a
Cherokee 180 and in the Deb. *In the Cherokee I could almost always
say, "well it looks like it's getting a bit thicker and worse ahead so
we'd better turn around" While in the Deb at near 200 MPH it basically
goes from marginal to "where'd everything go?" in the blink of an eye.
Even being able to file you still have to have every thing ready and
the mind set to fly IFR. When I say being ready to file I mean
*competent* and polished not just current.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Well said. *

To accomplish such polished competency requires regular use and
maintenance. *I'd say a minimum of a cross country flight or more
weekly.

I think it depends on the pilot and the pilot's relationship with the
specific plane. *



Here I agree with Dudley. *Unless you are out in "weather" that is
beating the snot out of you the cross county , even *in the clouds can
be relatively relaxed and even hand flown although that begins to
become tiresome after *a couple of hours and that 's the time you are
going to need to be your sharpest. *It's flying those new approaches
with the little unexpected things popping up that really build up the
polish.

The cross country is the easy part. It's working the pattern and the
airplane at and near the left side of the envelope in all configurations
that really completes the currency picture.
These airplanes require their pilots to simply go out and PRACTICE with
them perhaps more than they do.

PERHAPS? *:-)) *

I think "purely personal opinion" based on 1300 hours in the Deb over
the last 12 years, these aren't exactly forgiving airplanes. *They may
be pussycats *(OK Streak excepted) compared to the big military
fighters, but they do not suffer lack of proficiency well.:-)) *The
pilot really needs to know just about everything there is to know
about the specific plane when coming in to land be it an approach or
VFR pattern and they have to be flexible. *Side step, circle to land,
missed and published holds, going missed on ATC's command, traffic
avoidance, doing things without hesitation or having to stop and
think. *And this is assuming every thing works.:-)) *Are we tilting a
little, do I have the leans, or is the AI dying? *Man, what a time to
go partial panel.

Joining the ILS right at the outer marker when you have a tail wind of
20 or 30 knots (90 degrees to the localizer) really messes up your
nice turns.

Follow the guy ahead and expect the visual. Eh? I can't see the guy
ahead or the airport and I'm supposed to FOLLOW HIM? * (Ben there,
done that ) *Ahhhh... Approach, I can't see the twin ahead or the
airport. *It's solid IMC up here. *OK, *maintain heading (what ever),
expect vectors to the visual on 09.

Circle left for the visual to 27. *Say what? *There's a whole string
of airliners departing 09. *Oh! Then circle right for 09. *I think
they do that *just to see if you are paying attention.

And multitasking. *Why is it that approach always manages to squeeze a
5 minute transmission into 20 seconds telling you what to do for the
next 15 minutes right at the outer marker when you are busier than a
cat covering crap on a marble floor and hauling dirt two miles. *This
can be particularly interesting if there is only one ILS, it has a
tail wind of 20 knots and you have to circle to land WHILE departing
traffic is going the other *direction.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)www.rogerhalstead.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hi Roger,

Sort of off topic, but I was browsing your sites again and saw that
you are/were building a G-III. Yuor last entry was in 2006 if I'm not
mistaken. Are you still at it? If so, how far along are you now?

Wil