gun discharge in cockpit.

Dan wrote:
On Mar 28, 1:54 am, Roger wrote:

After the fist shot indoors even with a 9mm most people are deaf,
their head/ears are ringing like church bells, you are moving in a
sort of haze and you feel like your head is under water. It is not
like firing on a range wearing hearing protection under calm
conditions.

I've shot in "fun houses" (Urban combat) plenty of times. Once you get
the adrenaline going and you get momentarily deafened by the first
shot, you're good to go. I never expereinced all the physiological
trauma you're talking about with a 9 mm.

And the 9mm isn't even a real gun! :-)

Matt

On Mar 28, 6:14 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:

And the 9mm isn't even a real gun! :-)

Matt

Here we go...

:-)

Actually, I'm downsizing the .40 to a 9mm -- I can shoot twice the
ammo for the price as a 45 and 40, can carry 15-16 rounds per mag, and
the guns are smaller and thus more readily concealed.


All Good things.


Dan Mc

Dan wrote:
On Mar 28, 6:14 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:

And the 9mm isn't even a real gun! :-)

Matt

Here we go...

:-)

Actually, I'm downsizing the .40 to a 9mm -- I can shoot twice the
ammo for the price as a 45 and 40, can carry 15-16 rounds per mag, and
the guns are smaller and thus more readily concealed.


All Good things.


Dan Mc


Like a famous lawman once said, when I shoot a perp I don't just want to
make him mad, I want to take him down. I consider the .45 to be
marginal as a self-defense round, but my Super Blackhawk is a trifle
unwieldy in close quarters. :-)

However, if I were outside and the perps were hiding behind a car or
such, then I'd take the SA any day. Only 6 shots, but seldom are more
needed if every one does its job.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Dan wrote:
On Mar 28, 6:14 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:

And the 9mm isn't even a real gun! :-)

Matt

Here we go...

:-)

Actually, I'm downsizing the .40 to a 9mm -- I can shoot twice the
ammo for the price as a 45 and 40, can carry 15-16 rounds per mag, and
the guns are smaller and thus more readily concealed.


All Good things.


Dan Mc


Like a famous lawman once said, when I shoot a perp I don't just want to
make him mad, I want to take him down. I consider the .45 to be marginal
as a self-defense round, but my Super Blackhawk is a trifle unwieldy in
close quarters. :-)

However, if I were outside and the perps were hiding behind a car or such,
then I'd take the SA any day. Only 6 shots, but seldom are more needed if
every one does its job.


Give it up Matt. If this egghead is downsizing to a 9 from a 40 for self
defense, he is not even trainable.

On Mar 29, 8:55 am, "Maxwell" luv^2^fly^99@^cox.^net wrote:

Give it up Matt. If this egghead is downsizing to a 9 from a 40 for self
defense, he is not even trainable.

You're such a genius -- Please do tell the significant differences
between the two calibers.

And I'll be more than happy to show you a 1" group at 20 yards. You'll
need to hold something while I do.


Dan Mc

On 2008-03-29, Dan wrote:
You're such a genius -- Please do tell the significant differences
between the two calibers.

One need look no farther than the IPSC power factor calculation. Typically,
it's around 120 to 125 for 9mm Parabellum, and upwards of 170 for .40 S&W.
I'll happily trade one or two rounds for that kind of increase in power. To
me, .40 S&W represents the best tradeoff between power and capacity.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

"Jay Maynard" wrote in message
...
On 2008-03-29, Dan wrote:
You're such a genius -- Please do tell the significant differences
between the two calibers.

One need look no farther than the IPSC power factor calculation.
Typically,
it's around 120 to 125 for 9mm Parabellum, and upwards of 170 for .40 S&W.
I'll happily trade one or two rounds for that kind of increase in power.
To
me, .40 S&W represents the best tradeoff between power and capacity.

My thoughts exactly. If I didn't have a close friend the keeps me in .45
reloads, I would carry .40s. But I have seen too many training films and
police reports of someone taking as many as 4 rounds "center mass" from a
9mm, and just keep charging, and that just doesn't happen with a 40 or 45.

On Mar 29, 9:26 am, Jay Maynard
wrote:

One need look no farther than the IPSC power factor calculation. Typically,
it's around 120 to 125 for 9mm Parabellum, and upwards of 170 for .40 S&W.
I'll happily trade one or two rounds for that kind of increase in power. To
me, .40 S&W represents the best tradeoff between power and capacity.

You are confusing "power" with "ability to stop an assailant."

If all we wanted was "power," a 20 lb sledgehammer swung rapidly would
do quite nicely.

But sledgehammers are hard to conceal, don't provide very quick follow
ups, and have a very limited range.

The IPSC is biased towards the .45, thus the "power factor"
requirement. That's fine -- they can set any parameters they want --
IPSC is a game -- but don't take that requirement as an absolute
definition of effectiveness.

It isn't.

Read the FBI report which argues this point quite well:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

Sadly, the 9mm has proven its effectiveness on many, many occasions.
The V Tech shooter killed 32 people with a .22-caliber Walther P22 and
a 9 mm semi-automatic Glock 19.

What drove the FBI, DEA, ICE, SF, and other LE and Military
communities to bigger, faster cartridges was the requirement to shoot
through glass, car doors, etc and to take down perps high on PCP,
Meth, etc.

If those situations are in your mission profile, get something big and
fast.

But MOST civilians don't have this threat as part of their normal
lives.

Thus what really matters is your mission profile -- your own
capabilities, your exposure, your risks, your local jursidiction
requirements, etc.

Define that, THEN make your choice of weapon.


Dan Mc

Jay Maynard wrote in
:

On 2008-03-29, Dan wrote:
You're such a genius -- Please do tell the significant differences
between the two calibers.

One need look no farther than the IPSC power factor calculation.
Typically, it's around 120 to 125 for 9mm Parabellum, and upwards of
170 for .40 S&W. I'll happily trade one or two rounds for that kind of
increase in power. To me, .40 S&W represents the best tradeoff between
power and capacity.

I can;'t beleive you idiots are talking about what makes ya "more dead"

Bertie

"Dan" wrote in message
...
On Mar 29, 8:55 am, "Maxwell" luv^2^fly^99@^cox.^net wrote:

Give it up Matt. If this egghead is downsizing to a 9 from a 40 for self
defense, he is not even trainable.

You're such a genius -- Please do tell the significant differences
between the two calibers.


Why, you clearly wouldn't "get it".