Mechanics of Elevator Trim. In Detail.

"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote in message
...
On Jun 8, 11:07 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Jun 7, 10:08 pm, Le Chaud Lapin wrote:

What exactly happens when the trim is adjusted to point the nose
upward?

What type of plane is this for? I have a Mooney and also fly a 182.
Both trim system are very, very different.

For sake of those of us who only own MSFS, let's say a C172.

Does MSFS emulate the servo tab on the elevator? What does it do when you
change the trim in the air?

Trying to emulate real life trim on a simulation system that uses spring
centered control sticks isn't going to work like real life as you may
already know.

Should I post the spoiler on how a couple other mechanisims work (besides
servo tabs)?

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

On Jun 9, 7:29*am, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk At Wow Way
D0t C0m wrote:
"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote in ...
On Jun 8, 11:07 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

On Jun 7, 10:08 pm, Le Chaud Lapin wrote:

What exactly happens when the trim is adjusted to point the nose
upward?

What type of plane is this for? I have a Mooney and also fly a 182.
Both trim system are very, very different.

For sake of those of us who only own MSFS, let's say a C172.

Does MSFS emulate the servo tab on the elevator? What does it do when you
change the trim in the air?

Trying to emulate real life trim on a simulation system that uses spring
centered control sticks isn't going to work like real life as you may
already know.

Should I post the spoiler on how a couple other mechanisims work (besides
servo tabs)?


Why not? It woul be ejucational.

Cheers

On Jun 9, 7:29*am, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk At Wow Way
D0t C0m wrote:
"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote in ...
On Jun 8, 11:07 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

On Jun 7, 10:08 pm, Le Chaud Lapin wrote:

What exactly happens when the trim is adjusted to point the nose
upward?

What type of plane is this for? I have a Mooney and also fly a 182.
Both trim system are very, very different.

For sake of those of us who only own MSFS, let's say a C172.

Does MSFS emulate the servo tab on the elevator? What does it do when you
change the trim in the air?

Trying to emulate real life trim on a simulation system that uses spring
centered control sticks isn't going to work like real life as you may
already know.

Should I post the spoiler on how a couple other mechanisims work (besides
servo tabs)?


I'll raise you one to make three additional trim systems. Any more?

Cheers

More_Flaps wrote in
:

On Jun 9, 7:29*am, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk At Wow Way
D0t C0m wrote:
"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote in
messagenews:5c4deac0-2b92
...
On Jun 8, 11:07 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

On Jun 7, 10:08 pm, Le Chaud Lapin wrote:

What exactly happens when the trim is adjusted to point the nose
upward?

What type of plane is this for? I have a Mooney and also fly a 182.
Both trim system are very, very different.

For sake of those of us who only own MSFS, let's say a C172.

Does MSFS emulate the servo tab on the elevator? What does it do when
you change the trim in the air?

Trying to emulate real life trim on a simulation system that uses
spring centered control sticks isn't going to work like real life as
you may already know.

Should I post the spoiler on how a couple other mechanisims work
(besides servo tabs)?


I'll raise you one to make three additional trim systems. Any more?


I can think of four for a total of five, depending on whether you'd
consider hydraulic centering to be the same as a bungee trim system.
theothersa re of course, a tab system which is th emost common light
aircraft system. the trimmable stab, a'la Cub and most airliners and the
vane, like some early T-carts had.. There're probably some others, but i
can't think of any.


Bertie

On Jun 9, 9:06*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
More_Flaps wrote :





On Jun 9, 7:29*am, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk At Wow Way
D0t C0m wrote:
"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote in
messagenews:5c4deac0-2b92
...
On Jun 8, 11:07 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

On Jun 7, 10:08 pm, Le Chaud Lapin wrote:

What exactly happens when the trim is adjusted to point the nose
upward?

What type of plane is this for? I have a Mooney and also fly a 182.
Both trim system are very, very different.

For sake of those of us who only own MSFS, let's say a C172.

Does MSFS emulate the servo tab on the elevator? What does it do when
you change the trim in the air?

Trying to emulate real life trim on a simulation system that uses
spring centered control sticks isn't going to work like real life as
you may already know.

Should I post the spoiler on how a couple other mechanisims work
(besides servo tabs)?

I'll raise you one to make three additional trim systems. Any more?

I can think of four for a total of five, depending on whether you'd
consider hydraulic centering to be the same as a bungee trim system.
theothersa re of course, a tab system which is th emost common light
aircraft system. the trimmable stab, a'la Cub and most airliners and the
vane, like some early T-carts had.. There're probably some others, but i
can't think of any.


I'd count that as the same -the acutuating system doesn't count, just
the aerodynamic priciples. So, if you have four I'll raise you again
one to make five... Any raise on five basic methods?

Cheers

More_Flaps wrote in
:

On Jun 9, 9:06*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
More_Flaps wrote
innews:64b157a9-99f5-4429-9125-d1e2
:





On Jun 9, 7:29*am, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk At Wow Way
D0t C0m wrote:
"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote in
messagenews:5c4deac0-2b92
...
On Jun 8, 11:07 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

On Jun 7, 10:08 pm, Le Chaud Lapin wrote:

What exactly happens when the trim is adjusted to point the
nose upward?

What type of plane is this for? I have a Mooney and also fly a
182. Both trim system are very, very different.

For sake of those of us who only own MSFS, let's say a C172.

Does MSFS emulate the servo tab on the elevator? What does it do
when you change the trim in the air?

Trying to emulate real life trim on a simulation system that uses
spring centered control sticks isn't going to work like real life
as you may already know.

Should I post the spoiler on how a couple other mechanisims work
(besides servo tabs)?

I'll raise you one to make three additional trim systems. Any more?

I can think of four for a total of five, depending on whether you'd
consider hydraulic centering to be the same as a bungee trim system.
theothersa re of course, a tab system which is th emost common light
aircraft system. the trimmable stab, a'la Cub and most airliners and
the vane, like some early T-carts had.. There're probably some
others, but i can't think of any.


I'd count that as the same -the acutuating system doesn't count, just
the aerodynamic priciples. So, if you have four I'll raise you again
one to make five... Any raise on five basic methods?

Yeah, they;re essentially the same.

Go on. I'll call.


Bertie

On Jun 9, 9:24*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
More_Flaps wrote :





On Jun 9, 9:06*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
More_Flaps wrote
innews:64b157a9-99f5-4429-9125-d1e2
:

On Jun 9, 7:29*am, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk At Wow Way
D0t C0m wrote:
"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote in
messagenews:5c4deac0-2b92
...
On Jun 8, 11:07 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

On Jun 7, 10:08 pm, Le Chaud Lapin wrote:

What exactly happens when the trim is adjusted to point the
nose upward?

What type of plane is this for? I have a Mooney and also fly a
182. Both trim system are very, very different.

For sake of those of us who only own MSFS, let's say a C172.

Does MSFS emulate the servo tab on the elevator? What does it do
when you change the trim in the air?

Trying to emulate real life trim on a simulation system that uses
spring centered control sticks isn't going to work like real life
as you may already know.

Should I post the spoiler on how a couple other mechanisims work
(besides servo tabs)?

I'll raise you one to make three additional trim systems. Any more?

I can think of four for a total of five, depending on whether you'd
consider hydraulic centering to be the same as a bungee trim system.
theothersa re of course, a tab system which is th emost common light
aircraft system. the trimmable stab, a'la Cub and most airliners and
the vane, like some early T-carts had.. There're probably some
others, but i can't think of any.

I'd count that as the same -the acutuating system doesn't count, just
the aerodynamic priciples. So, if you have four I'll raise you again
one to make five... Any raise on five basic methods?

Yeah, they;re essentially the same.

Go on. I'll call.


Should'nt we wait to see if there's any other raise?

Cheers

on 6/8/2008 4:39 PM More_Flaps said the following:
On Jun 9, 9:24 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
More_Flaps wrote :





On Jun 9, 9:06 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
More_Flaps wrote
innews:64b157a9-99f5-4429-9125-d1e2
:
On Jun 9, 7:29 am, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk At Wow Way
D0t C0m wrote:
"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote in
messagenews:5c4deac0-2b92
...
On Jun 8, 11:07 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Jun 7, 10:08 pm, Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
What exactly happens when the trim is adjusted to point the
nose upward?
What type of plane is this for? I have a Mooney and also fly a
182. Both trim system are very, very different.
For sake of those of us who only own MSFS, let's say a C172.
Does MSFS emulate the servo tab on the elevator? What does it do
when you change the trim in the air?
Trying to emulate real life trim on a simulation system that uses
spring centered control sticks isn't going to work like real life
as you may already know.
Should I post the spoiler on how a couple other mechanisims work
(besides servo tabs)?
I'll raise you one to make three additional trim systems. Any more?
I can think of four for a total of five, depending on whether you'd
consider hydraulic centering to be the same as a bungee trim system.
theothersa re of course, a tab system which is th emost common light
aircraft system. the trimmable stab, a'la Cub and most airliners and
the vane, like some early T-carts had.. There're probably some
others, but i can't think of any.
I'd count that as the same -the acutuating system doesn't count, just
the aerodynamic priciples. So, if you have four I'll raise you again
one to make five... Any raise on five basic methods?
Yeah, they;re essentially the same.

Go on. I'll call.

Should'nt we wait to see if there's any other raise?

Weight shift?

On Jun 8, 3:39 pm, More_Flaps wrote:
On Jun 9, 9:24 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:



More_Flaps wrote :

On Jun 9, 9:06 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
More_Flaps wrote
innews:64b157a9-99f5-4429-9125-d1e2
:

On Jun 9, 7:29 am, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk At Wow Way
D0t C0m wrote:
"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote in
messagenews:5c4deac0-2b92
...
On Jun 8, 11:07 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

On Jun 7, 10:08 pm, Le Chaud Lapin wrote:

What exactly happens when the trim is adjusted to point the
nose upward?

What type of plane is this for? I have a Mooney and also fly a
182. Both trim system are very, very different.

For sake of those of us who only own MSFS, let's say a C172.

Does MSFS emulate the servo tab on the elevator? What does it do
when you change the trim in the air?

Trying to emulate real life trim on a simulation system that uses
spring centered control sticks isn't going to work like real life
as you may already know.

Should I post the spoiler on how a couple other mechanisims work
(besides servo tabs)?

I'll raise you one to make three additional trim systems. Any more?

I can think of four for a total of five, depending on whether you'd
consider hydraulic centering to be the same as a bungee trim system.
theothersa re of course, a tab system which is th emost common light
aircraft system. the trimmable stab, a'la Cub and most airliners and
the vane, like some early T-carts had.. There're probably some
others, but i can't think of any.

I'd count that as the same -the acutuating system doesn't count, just
the aerodynamic priciples. So, if you have four I'll raise you again
one to make five... Any raise on five basic methods?

Yeah, they;re essentially the same.

Go on. I'll call.

Should'nt we wait to see if there's any other raise?

Cheers

Some sailplanes, some ultralights and a few other light
aircraft use bungees or springs in the elevator control system.
Adjusting the tension of the bungee or spring will apply appropriate
force to the elevator system to achieve trim.

Tabs are most common. Some ultralights have a ground-adjustable
tab. Others use a chain-and-cable arrangement that work a small
jackscrew inside the stab that pushes and pulls a rod attached to the
tab. Cessna likes that one. Taylorcraft used a crank that drove a
cable loop that worked a pulley that had a thread through it, and ran
a screw back and forth to work a shorter push-pull cable to the tab,
IIRC. Some just use a long push-pull Bowden cable directly from a
lever to the tab. Champs/Citabrias use a lever that works two 1/16"
cables directly to the tab, via pulleys. Some homebuilts use an
electric jackscrew to work the tab. Electrical failure means no trim.

Adjustable stabilizers are not uncommon. The Supercub and Tri-
Pacer use them but also have a bungee affair that applies tension to
the elevator cables. Two systems in one airplane. The Cessna 180/185
adjusts the stab via two jackscrews at the leading edge, operated in
unison by sprockets and a chain diven by a cable loop.

I once saw somewhere a light aircraft (homebuilt ultralight, I
think) that had its battery on a sliding device that moved fore-and-
aft to change the CG and therefore trim. This sort of thing adds
unacceptable weight.

Stabilators use adjustable antiservo tabs. That tab has a lever
on it whose forward end is hinged at a point behind the stab hinge to
get the desired antiservo action, and that hinge point is on a nut
moved fore and aft by a jackscrew to get the trim action.

Mooneys used to move the WHOLE TAIL, fin and stab and all, to
change the angle of the stab. Do they still make them that way?

The Spratt Controlwing moved the wings for all control
including trim. The tail did nothing but keep the nose pointed into
the wind. See http://www.flyingflea.org/docs/SprattControlwing.htm

Didn't the Wren 260 use a small canard for low-speed trim?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterson_260SE

Dan

More_Flaps wrote in
:

On Jun 9, 9:24*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
More_Flaps wrote
innews:d998f060-3e6a-4b62-8179-88af
:





On Jun 9, 9:06*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
More_Flaps wrote
innews:64b157a9-99f5-4429-9125-d1e2
:

On Jun 9, 7:29*am, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk At Wow
Way

D0t C0m wrote:
"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote in
messagenews:5c4deac0-2b92
...
On Jun 8, 11:07 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

On Jun 7, 10:08 pm, Le Chaud Lapin
wrote:

What exactly happens when the trim is adjusted to point the
nose upward?

What type of plane is this for? I have a Mooney and also fly
a 182. Both trim system are very, very different.

For sake of those of us who only own MSFS, let's say a C172.

Does MSFS emulate the servo tab on the elevator? What does it
do when you change the trim in the air?

Trying to emulate real life trim on a simulation system that
uses spring centered control sticks isn't going to work like
real life as you may already know.

Should I post the spoiler on how a couple other mechanisims
work (besides servo tabs)?

I'll raise you one to make three additional trim systems. Any
more?

I can think of four for a total of five, depending on whether
you'd consider hydraulic centering to be the same as a bungee trim
system. theothersa re of course, a tab system which is th emost
common light aircraft system. the trimmable stab, a'la Cub and
most airliners and the vane, like some early T-carts had..
There're probably some others, but i can't think of any.

I'd count that as the same -the acutuating system doesn't count,
just the aerodynamic priciples. So, if you have four I'll raise you
again one to make five... Any raise on five basic methods?

Yeah, they;re essentially the same.

Go on. I'll call.


Should'nt we wait to see if there's any other raise?

Cheers

Would a 100% computer controlled system like the B2 count as yet another
way? Do they even have to trim it or does the computer automatically
adjust for whatever flight regime they set?

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)