Mayday in Utah

On Jun 12, 7:28 am, Jim Beckman wrote:
At 04:22 12 June 2008, wrote:

Center reported a Mayday from a "powered
glider with a failed engine"

Sounds like the pilot involved has a really odd sort of
mindset - mired in the world of powered flight. I mean,
what's the use of those long wings if you're not going
to use them?

OK, I'm sure some of you are jesting, but here's what *might* have
happened:

Pilot is soaring over remote Utah with some reasonably safe looking
dry lakes, pastures, whatever below. Runs out of lift and decides
it's time to start the engine while within easy range of one of these
landing options. The engine fails to start, the location is extremely
remote, so pilot makes a MAYDAY call while still in the landing
pattern to ensure someone will come get him if problems arise.

If he had a transponder or SPOT, he might activate these before
landing, again in case something bad happens.

When I fly my ASH-26E, I'm always planning to land it somewhere
safely, but it's a welcome relief when the engine starts. It's just
plain stupid to not be preparing to land as one is starting the engine
- just in case.

-Tom

5Z wrote:
On Jun 12, 7:28 am, Jim Beckman wrote:

At 04:22 12 June 2008, wrote:


Center reported a Mayday from a "powered
glider with a failed engine"

Sounds like the pilot involved has a really odd sort of
mindset - mired in the world of powered flight. I mean,
what's the use of those long wings if you're not going
to use them?


OK, I'm sure some of you are jesting, but here's what *might* have
happened:

Pilot is soaring over remote Utah with some reasonably safe looking
dry lakes, pastures, whatever below. Runs out of lift and decides
it's time to start the engine while within easy range of one of these
landing options. The engine fails to start, the location is extremely
remote, so pilot makes a MAYDAY call while still in the landing
pattern to ensure someone will come get him if problems arise.

If he had a transponder or SPOT, he might activate these before
landing, again in case something bad happens.

When I fly my ASH-26E, I'm always planning to land it somewhere
safely, but it's a welcome relief when the engine starts. It's just
plain stupid to not be preparing to land as one is starting the engine
- just in case.

-Tom

Way back, as a powered pilot student, I was always taught to constantly
be scanning for suitable landing sites if the fan stopped and I became a
glider. Since I've never been to Utah, I don't know the terrain but
always assumed a lot of those dry lake beds, etc with some mountains
thrown in here and there

Scott

On Jun 12, 8:29*am, Scott wrote:
5Z wrote:
On Jun 12, 7:28 am, Jim Beckman wrote:

At 04:22 12 June 2008, wrote:

Center reported a Mayday from a "powered
glider with a failed engine"

Sounds like the pilot involved has a really odd sort of
mindset - mired in the world of powered flight. *I mean,
what's the use of those long wings if you're not going
to use them?

OK, I'm sure some of you are jesting, but here's what *might* have
happened:

Pilot is soaring over remote Utah with some reasonably safe looking
dry lakes, pastures, whatever below. *Runs out of lift and decides
it's time to start the engine while within easy range of one of these
landing options. *The engine fails to start, the location is extremely
remote, so pilot makes a MAYDAY call while still in the landing
pattern to ensure someone will come get him if problems arise.

If he had a transponder or SPOT, he might activate these before
landing, again in case something bad happens.


Easy Cowboys, if you transmit a MAYDAY or activate your transponder to
Mayday before landing and land where radio transmission is not likely
to reach anyone, wouldn't this activate SAR missions? If one had ELT
or SPOT this could be used on the ground anywhere except in dense
jungle, right?

Granted in Utah & Nevada you could actually land in an area so remote
that not even a paved road for 50 miles is near your dry lake or open
desert landing, in which case this would be prudent. I guess what I'm
saying is, if you could still be in deep doo-doo after a landing, it
would be prudent to Mayday, but if the landing is pretty near
civilization, maybe hold off till you get on the ground?

Any comments from SAR people on this?

Thanks,

Wayne

On Jun 12, 9:29 am, Scott wrote:
5Z wrote:
On Jun 12, 7:28 am, Jim Beckman wrote:

At 04:22 12 June 2008, wrote:

Center reported a Mayday from a "powered
glider with a failed engine"

Sounds like the pilot involved has a really odd sort of
mindset - mired in the world of powered flight. I mean,
what's the use of those long wings if you're not going
to use them?

OK, I'm sure some of you are jesting, but here's what *might* have
happened:

Pilot is soaring over remote Utah with some reasonably safe looking
dry lakes, pastures, whatever below. Runs out of lift and decides
it's time to start the engine while within easy range of one of these
landing options. The engine fails to start, the location is extremely
remote, so pilot makes a MAYDAY call while still in the landing
pattern to ensure someone will come get him if problems arise.

If he had a transponder or SPOT, he might activate these before
landing, again in case something bad happens.

When I fly my ASH-26E, I'm always planning to land it somewhere
safely, but it's a welcome relief when the engine starts. It's just
plain stupid to not be preparing to land as one is starting the engine
- just in case.

-Tom

Way back, as a powered pilot student, I was always taught to constantly
be scanning for suitable landing sites if the fan stopped and I became a
glider. Since I've never been to Utah, I don't know the terrain but
always assumed a lot of those dry lake beds, etc with some mountains
thrown in here and there

Scott

Southern Utah, lots of mountains, scrub, river beds and very few dry
lake beds, epically this year. There are alfalfa fields in some
valleys.

Google Earth Duck Creek Village Utah, the runway is not usable by
gliders. Fence posts on each side that will let a Cezzna land but not
gliders. You will notice the elevation is 8400 feet, don't want to
think about the density altitude the day I was forced to land there
(way over 10,000 feet). Went from fat dumb and happy to Oh sh#* in
about two minutes by a thunderstorm miles away. The only lucky thing
was I was flying a Ventus B that day and could get it into one of the
meadows and stopped in about 300 feet.

I can understand the precautionary Mayday if you are not sure you are
going to make a good landing and no one knows where you are. Often I
can be anywhere in 90,000 square miles out here. Without an ELT
signal or spot they will find my bones ten years from now when a
hunter stumbles on the glider. I think a Mayday with coordinates
would be a good idea. Yes I fly with an ELT, but it has to work.

Where is Steve Fossett?

Tim Taylor wrote:
On Jun 12, 9:29 am, Scott wrote:


I can understand the precautionary Mayday if you are not sure you are
going to make a good landing and no one knows where you are. Often I
can be anywhere in 90,000 square miles out here. Without an ELT
signal or spot they will find my bones ten years from now when a
hunter stumbles on the glider. I think a Mayday with coordinates
would be a good idea. Yes I fly with an ELT, but it has to work.

Where is Steve Fossett?



May PAN PAN might be more appropriate. I believe MAYDAY is supposed to
be used when loss of property or life is imminent. Pan Pan is for
"urgent" situations. I realize it's a judgement call, but I'd use PAN
PAN if I was lost or something, and MAYDAY when a wing or tail feathers
departed the plane. Maybe the Feds should add an Oh S***! phrase since
all one has to do is remember to key the PTT line because Oh S*** comes
out without even the slightest thought as "Now what were those proper
FAA phrases?"

Scott

May PAN PAN might be more appropriate. I believe MAYDAY is supposed to
be used when loss of property or life is imminent. Pan Pan is for
"urgent" situations. I realize it's a judgement call, but I'd use PAN
PAN if I was lost or something, and MAYDAY when a wing or tail feathers
departed the plane.

This is slightly OT, but... suppose that you are flying in a remote
area and see an accident, or what looks like a recent accident.
Landing is impossible or difficult. What radio call would you make?

Bartek

brtlmj wrote:

May PAN PAN might be more appropriate. I believe MAYDAY is supposed to
be used when loss of property or life is imminent. Pan Pan is for
"urgent" situations. I realize it's a judgement call, but I'd use PAN
PAN if I was lost or something, and MAYDAY when a wing or tail feathers
departed the plane.


This is slightly OT, but... suppose that you are flying in a remote
area and see an accident, or what looks like a recent accident.
Landing is impossible or difficult. What radio call would you make?

Bartek
I'd say "Fligh****ch, experimental 3642 near Ogden (or nearest known
position so they know which transmitter to reply with)" When they
returned my call, I'd tell them what I think I see below.

Scott

I'd say "Fligh****ch, experimental 3642 near Ogden (or nearest known
position so they know which transmitter to reply with)"



Errr, Flight Service (often on 122.2 - both transmit/receive)? Flight
Watch (122.0 - only, AFAIK) is for weather advisories.

Tony

At 14:56 12 June 2008, 5Z wrote:

OK, I'm sure some of you are jesting, but here's what *might* have
happened:

Pilot is soaring over remote Utah with some reasonably safe looking
dry lakes, pastures, whatever below. Runs out of lift and decides
it's time to start the engine while within easy range of one of these
landing options. The engine fails to start, the location is extremely
remote, so pilot makes a MAYDAY call while still in the landing
pattern to ensure someone will come get him if problems arise.

If he had a transponder or SPOT, he might activate these before
landing, again in case something bad happens.

When I fly my ASH-26E, I'm always planning to land it somewhere
safely, but it's a welcome relief when the engine starts. It's just
plain stupid to not be preparing to land as one is starting the engine
- just in case.

So if you were flying a pure glider, and facing the prospect
of landing in a remote, but reasonably safe looking dry
lake, pasture, whatever, would you send out a Mayday
message before even landing?

Jim Beckman

On Jun 12, 7:56*am, 5Z wrote:

OK, I'm sure some of you are jesting, but here's what *might* have
happened...

I think we can be fairly sure he wasn't tightening the iris on his
camera after a console lockup.