Immediate Action Items Checklist

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:46:47 -0700 (PDT), "Ol Shy & Bashful"

Do you rehearse it or practice it while the pressure
is off? If not, why not? What do you use for immediate action and why?

This is the first I've heard of that term. Are you referring to
emergency procedures contained in the aircraft's POH?

I think he's referring to immediate action in the sense that if you're
on takeoff--he mentioned 200'-- and you lose power, you don't have time
to fish out the POH and run through the checklist.

Actually, of course, that should be done beforehand. You already know
you're at T/O power, mixture rich, prop forward, fuel pump on, engine
instruments green, mags both and flaps at recommended setting because
you (theoretically) verified that right before launching, and either you
just retracted your gear or you haven't yet (or they're fixed.)

That simplifies things, and you'd be wasting seconds by referring to a
checklist of things you just completed.

And since you've already considered what's downrange and where you're
going to put it if it fails on takeoff, the actual checklist of
immediate action items is going to be very small, and you ran through
that before rolling onto the runway already (Establish best glide,
gear/no gear, flaps, fuel, electrical, door, don't panic, fly, etc.)

Seems like you could make a pretty succinct kneeboard checklist so
you're not wasting time flipping anything.

-c

On Jun 17, 7:58*pm, gatt wrote:

Seems like you could make a pretty succinct kneeboard checklist so
you're not wasting time flipping anything.

I have one, full page laminated and easily reachable in the passenger
door pouch..... in the real deal, it's really of no use...My answers
to Ol Shy and Bashful below.

On Jun 17, 5:46 pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:
Do YOU have one?

Yes, but in the real deal emergency, valuable time wasted reaching for
it and getting oriented to where to start reading.

Do you rehearse it or practice it while the pressure is off? If not, why not?

No, too many variables and too many situations and most importantly,
not like the real deal.

What do you use for immediate action and why?

Trouble shooting first (AVIATE), Landing spot second (NAVIGATE),
declare emergency third (COMMUNICATE).

http://tinyurl.com/6ngvp7 for my in flight emergency and how I handled
it.

I consider it utmost important the emergency procedures be memorized,
as when the crap hits the fan, reading a list would be distracting and
may excasperate the problem.

NOW.... if I had a passenger, pulling the list and having them look it
over and read it to ensure I didn't miss anything would be good CRM.
In my case, it wouldn't have done squat.

On Jun 17, 10:10*pm, A Lieberman wrote:
On Jun 17, 7:58*pm, gatt wrote:

Seems like you could make a pretty succinct kneeboard checklist so
you're not wasting time flipping anything.

I have one, full page laminated and easily reachable in the passenger
door pouch..... in the real deal, it's really of no use...My answers
to Ol Shy and Bashful below.

On Jun 17, 5:46 pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:

Do YOU have one?

Yes, but in the real deal emergency, valuable time wasted reaching for
it and getting oriented to where to start reading.

Do you rehearse it or practice it while the pressure is off? If not, why not?

No, too many variables and too many situations and most importantly,
not like the real deal.

What do you use for immediate action and why?

Trouble shooting first (AVIATE), Landing spot second (NAVIGATE),
declare emergency third (COMMUNICATE).

http://tinyurl.com/6ngvp7for my in flight emergency and how I handled
it.

I consider it utmost important the emergency procedures be memorized,
as when the crap hits the fan, reading a list would be distracting and
may excasperate the problem.

NOW.... if I had a passenger, pulling the list and having them look it
over and read it to ensure I didn't miss anything would be good CRM.
In my case, it wouldn't have done squat.

Not sure who I am replying to so bear with me? The most dangerous
emergency is with an engine problem down below 1000' agl (I refer to
that as the "Red Zone" and below 500' agl as the DARK RED Zone.
Certainly a competent pilot should have the immediate action items
memorized as there is little time to go digging out/reading a
checklist at low altitude with an emergency. And, I certainly am not
going to rely on a non-pilot to read the correct checklist in an
emergency?
For those who don't know me, I've been flying since the mid 50's, over
25,000 hours and nearly half that in ag operations with both FW/RW
worldwide. I've had a number of emergencies, engine failures,
mechanical failures, bird strikes, tree strikes, blown tires, brake
failures, prop failures, fuel problems, etc, etc ad infinitum. In
other words, enough real life experience to base my opinions on with a
reasonable degree of validity. Once you get past the bluster and
bull**** I think you'll find I have some valid points to consider.
I've got a book full of photos I've shot of broken airplanes and only
one of them was mine from very early in my career. I happened to be on
the different scenes and took the photos and/or talked with the pilot/
s involved. Includes a 737 that had a total electrical failure on
rotation from 25L at LGB and he stopped with his wingtip hanging over
the edge of the runway looking down on I-5. Talk about a high pucker
factor?!
My whole purpose here is to make pilots think about possibles and
variables. I fly nearly every day and do 70-80 hours a month
instructing. Even so I see new things weekly and new things to
consider. The potentials for disaster and accidents or incidents are
high here with a high volume of traffic and a mix of civil and
military aircraft. You have to keep safety in mind but temper it with
operational exigencies and realities. My sense of survival always has
me thinking of emergencies and I can't stop playing "what if ...."
I'll be 72 this year and not sure how much longer I'll stay in the
cockpit but I can guarantee I'll be thinking ahead of the aircraft as
long as I am.
Best Regards
Ol S&B

On Jun 17, 10:39*pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:

Not sure who I am replying to so bear with me? The most dangerous
emergency is with an engine problem down below 1000' agl (I refer to
that as the "Red Zone" and below 500' agl as the DARK RED Zone.
Certainly a competent pilot should have the immediate action items
memorized as there is little time to go digging out/reading a
checklist at low altitude with an emergency.

I have a one page laminated document front and back taken directly
from the POH. As you indicated anything below 1000 feet, this
document probably will be of no use, but in the document, in big read
letters are the various stages of flight. In blue in 20 point text
are the steps to be taken during an emergency including my emergency
decent, glide and landing speeds.

The document is broken out in a very simple format. Head lines in red.

During take off Ground roll (obviously not designed for pulling out
either by me or passenger - fly the plane)
After lift off (again not designed for pulling out either by me or
passenger - open doors and fly the plane)

And, I certainly am not
going to rely on a non-pilot to read the correct checklist in an
emergency?

In Flight - This is where I would ask a passenger to pull out the list
and read what is on the page so I can continue focusing on aviating.
There are only 14 items and the since I have it committed to memory,
the read back from the passenger would be only a verification that
indeed I remembered everything. After all, as indicated in my link, I
had time, just not by myself to "challenge" my memory.

My whole purpose here is to make pilots think about possibles and
variables.

Good discussion and always good reminders from threads of this nature.

I fly nearly every day and do 70-80 hours a month
instructing. Even so I see new things weekly and new things to
consider. The potentials for disaster and accidents or incidents are
high here with a high volume of traffic and a mix of civil and
military aircraft. You have to keep safety in mind but temper it with
operational exigencies and realities.

Just a measly 820+ under my belt, but I try to think like you, what
if... For IFR, I even include my engine instrumention intermittently
in my scan so that I can catch trends and report it before it becomes
an emergency, keeping that what if scenario in my mind. It only takes
an extra second for some peace of mine that things are running full
tilt.

Just like simulated vs actual IMC conditions, emergencies are the same
in my opinion, while it's nice to practice them, to experience one is
a whole different beast, since now you have the adrenaline factor that
was missing in training.

Um, that would be the 405. I-5 is about ten miles northeast.

Jim

--
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
without accepting it."
--Aristotle


Includes a 737 that had a total electrical failure on
rotation from 25L at LGB and he stopped with his wingtip hanging over
the edge of the runway looking down on I-5. Talk about a high pucker
factor?!

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:39:21 -0700 (PDT), "Ol Shy & Bashful"
wrote:


me thinking of emergencies and I can't stop playing "what if ...."
I'll be 72 this year and not sure how much longer I'll stay in the
cockpit but I can guarantee I'll be thinking ahead of the aircraft as


seventy two!!!!!!

is that all. you have at least 27 years left in you before you reach
the age of my hero - the guy who renewed his class 1 instrument rating
at age 99.

remember the words of that australian song ... you're only as old as
the woman you feel :-)

stop worrying - go flying.
Stealth Pilot

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:10:55 -0700 (PDT), A Lieberman
wrote:


Trouble shooting first (AVIATE), Landing spot second (NAVIGATE),
declare emergency third (COMMUNICATE).

aviate
navigate
procrastinate
communicate

dont do your thinking with the mike button pressed :-)
do it before you press it.

fly the aeroplane.
if you dont get time to do anything else ...so what?

Stealth Pilot

On Jun 17, 7:36*pm, Larry Dighera wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:46:47 -0700 (PDT), "Ol Shy & Bashful"
wrote in
:

Do YOU have one? Do you rehearse it or practice it while the pressure
is off? If not, why not? What do you use for immediate action and why?

This is the first I've heard of that term. *Are you referring to
emergency procedures contained in the aircraft's POH?

Larry
Immediate Emergency Action is just exactly that. If you check stats,
the vast majority of engine failures occur because of fuel problems.
Fuel exhaustion, fuel starvation, fuel contamination or a mechanical
like fuel pump or fuel line failure. I think its like 80%? So, if a
pilot does the obvious like fuel tank select, mixture, throttle, carb
heat (if carbureted) fuel pump on (if so equipped) there is a chance
of taking care of the problem without heading for the trees while
digging out the checklist and crashing. Most of the POH info goes thru
the litany of things to check while setting up for a crash and down
towards the bottom kind of as an afterthought says "Attempt to restart
the engine if time permits..." That is kind of after the fact and way
too late.
When I was flying a variety of aircraft and jumping from one to
another, I tried to do the procedure for one that did not apply and
damned near put it into the trees. After that, I took time to review
Immediate Action Items for the specific aircraft I was flying before I
took off. I rehearsed the specific immediate action items before
takeoff and still do it to this day and teach my students the same. If
an engine quits at less than 500' agl, there is not much time to
decide what to do and it sure is better to have a game plan rehearsed
immediately beforehand. I spent about 40 years doing crop dusting or
ag operations and the margin for error is pretty narrow as is the time
to react to emergencies. That is where I got my basis for this answer.
Cheers
Ol S&B

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:08:23 -0700 (PDT), "Ol Shy & Bashful"
wrote in
:

On Jun 17, 7:36*pm, Larry Dighera wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:46:47 -0700 (PDT), "Ol Shy & Bashful"
wrote in
:

Do YOU have one? Do you rehearse it or practice it while the pressure
is off? If not, why not? What do you use for immediate action and why?

This is the first I've heard of that term. *Are you referring to
emergency procedures contained in the aircraft's POH?

Larry
Immediate Emergency Action is just exactly that.

Okay. So you're thinking about emergency procedures for a given
scenario on departure, en route, or arrival.

If you check stats,
the vast majority of engine failures occur because of fuel problems.
Fuel exhaustion, fuel starvation, fuel contamination or a mechanical
like fuel pump or fuel line failure. I think its like 80%? So, if a
pilot does the obvious like fuel tank select, mixture, throttle, carb
heat (if carbureted) fuel pump on (if so equipped) there is a chance
of taking care of the problem without heading for the trees while
digging out the checklist and crashing.

So you're concerned that the PIC should be instantly prepared for all
contingencies. If the pilot understands the systems (fuel,
electrical, control, hydraulic, ...), he shouldn't find
logically/intuitively diagnosing the cause of the emergency too
difficult.

Most of the POH info goes thru
the litany of things to check while setting up for a crash and down
towards the bottom kind of as an afterthought says "Attempt to restart
the engine if time permits..." That is kind of after the fact and way
too late.

I suppose it can be at low altitude.

When I was flying a variety of aircraft and jumping from one to
another, I tried to do the procedure for one that did not apply and
damned near put it into the trees.

I can certainly see how that might occur in that situation. What
happened?

After that, I took time to review
Immediate Action Items for the specific aircraft I was flying before I
took off. I rehearsed the specific immediate action items before
takeoff and still do it to this day and teach my students the same.

Coming from a pilot with your experience, preflight review of
emergency procedures is prudent and sound advice. Thanks for calling
it to my attention.

If an engine quits at less than 500' agl, there is not much time to
decide what to do

Right. If you believe you can successfully execute a turn-back, it's
best begun immediately rather than analyzing the cause of the problem.
However, a sudden power interruption is most likely due to a control
improperly positioned, and might be easily rectified. You're forcing
me to give this some thought.

I can see where the PIC should have a different response to similar
situations according to height/time available. If altitude permits,
one fiddles with the fuel selector, ...; if you're light and five
hundred feed AGL and the fan stops, you'd immediately bank 45 degrees,
and slow to five knots greater than stall speed, the speed at which
the warning is normally activated. If below that altitude, select a
touchdown point but a few tens of degrees from your present heading
that may provide the kinetic energy to be dissipated by the airframe
without endangering those on the ground, if possible. It's always
good to have a few spots at the home airport pre-picked out on the
departure end of the runways and on the crosswind legs.

and it sure is better to have a game plan rehearsed immediately beforehand.

Things always go better when you're prepared.

I spent about 40 years doing crop dusting or
ag operations and the margin for error is pretty narrow as is the time
to react to emergencies. That is where I got my basis for this answer.
Cheers
Ol S&B

Very much appreciated, Rocky.

On Jun 17, 5:46*pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:
Do YOU have one?

Yes, but in the real deal emergency, valuable time wasted reaching for
it and getting oriented to where to start reading.

Do you rehearse it or practice it while the pressure is off? If not, why not?

No, too many variables and too many situations and most importantly,
not like the real deal.

What do you use for immediate action and why?

Trouble shooting first (AVIATE), Landing spot second (NAVIGATE),
declare emergency third (COMMUNICATE).

http://tinyurl.com/6ngvp7 for my in flight emergency and how I handled
it.

I consider it utmost important the emergency procedures be memorized,
as when the crap hits the fan, reading a list would be distracting and
may excasperate the problem.

NOW.... if I had a passenger, pulling the list and having them look it
over and read it to ensure I didn't miss anything would be good CRM.
In my case, it wouldn't have done squat.