Leading Turns With Rudder

On Jul 21, 12:53*pm, sisu1a wrote:
Hi All,

An SSA 'Master' CFIG I know is perpetually hammering it into his
students that to initiate a turn in a glider, the FIRST thing you do
is feed in rudder. On his 1-5 list of making a turn in a glider, #1 is
rudder (as it's own separate input). While this may be aerodynamically
acceptable practice for a 2-33, it seems a recipie for disaster in
other ships to begin a turn by intentionally skidding. Since in a
pinch, one has a tendency to revert to instincts that were first
learned/practiced (right OR wrong), I see this as a setup for possible
future problems.
Since I have issues with this, I want to gather some other opinions
(particularly those of *other CFI's) to help present a case to
possibly get this corrected. He holds little value of MYopinion, so I
was hoping to get some 'name brand' opinions to help my case. And if I
am just putting to much into this, I would rather hear it from this
group.

-Paul

When introducing yaw control, I teach "lead with the rudder" slightly.
This is done because
most people(almost all) are better with their hand than their feet.
This is done while pointing out that yaw and roll should start
together to create an effective turn entry. This is done as timing
only and is NOT allowed to create the impression that the rudder turns
the glider. Within a very few flights this timing has been learned and
"lead with the rudder" does not come up again unless the student has
coordination trouble.
Skidding truns are not tolerated.
I also teach "lead with the stick" on the exit for the same reason.
I also teach "lead with the rudder" on turn stall and incipient spin
recoveries.
Let the flames begin.
UH

On Jul 21, 5:10 pm, wrote:
On Jul 21, 12:53 pm, sisu1a wrote:



Hi All,

An SSA 'Master' CFIG I know is perpetually hammering it into his
students that to initiate a turn in a glider, the FIRST thing you do
is feed in rudder. On his 1-5 list of making a turn in a glider, #1 is
rudder (as it's own separate input). While this may be aerodynamically
acceptable practice for a 2-33, it seems a recipie for disaster in
other ships to begin a turn by intentionally skidding. Since in a
pinch, one has a tendency to revert to instincts that were first
learned/practiced (right OR wrong), I see this as a setup for possible
future problems.
Since I have issues with this, I want to gather some other opinions
(particularly those of other CFI's) to help present a case to
possibly get this corrected. He holds little value of MYopinion, so I
was hoping to get some 'name brand' opinions to help my case. And if I
am just putting to much into this, I would rather hear it from this
group.

-Paul

When introducing yaw control, I teach "lead with the rudder" slightly.
This is done because
most people(almost all) are better with their hand than their feet.
This is done while pointing out that yaw and roll should start
together to create an effective turn entry. This is done as timing
only and is NOT allowed to create the impression that the rudder turns
the glider. Within a very few flights this timing has been learned and
"lead with the rudder" does not come up again unless the student has
coordination trouble.
Skidding truns are not tolerated.
I also teach "lead with the stick" on the exit for the same reason.
I also teach "lead with the rudder" on turn stall and incipient spin
recoveries.
Let the flames begin.
UH

That's all pretty sensible and defensible compared to what was
described by the OP. No flames from me.