aircraft brakes were never designed for stopping aircraft.

Well, that "may" be true for certified aircraft. But with a homebuilt,
all bets are off. The builder is free to overpower his brake system
however he sees fit. And put large and powerful enough brakes on it to
provide plenty of energy absorbing power to stop his aircraft. Even
airliners have definite limits on their brakes. You take off heavy and
abort above 100 knots, and you are most certainly going to be in the
"melt zone". wherby the fuse plugs will melt and deflate the tires by
design. So your statement can't be a blanket statement about all
aircrat. Depends on the aircrafts weight at takeoff or landing. the
speed at which the brakes are applied to bring the aircraft to a stop.
It's all about engery, which is variable for each instance. So even
large aircraft have limits to their stopping power. They'll stop the
aircraft at just about any weight, but over a certain amount, and you
better not stand too close to it after landing.
Plus, way back when, old light aircraft had crap for brakes. Back when
Stinsons, Swifts, and other postwar aircraft were built, there were no
Cleveland brakes. With those, and clones of them, you can stop just
fine.




On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:54:27 +0800, Stealth Pilot
wrote:


some interesting points came out of one guy's query re servicing some
old brake master cylinders.

gringomasloco commented regarding broken brake lines spraying brake
fluid over hot calipers and setting the wheels on fire. hmmmmm.

I am talking about light private aircraft here...

as I put it in the subject line aircraft brakes were never designed
for stopping aircraft. they were designed to hold aircraft.
now that may sound like semantic nonsense but it is true.

aircraft brakes were designed for use in holding the aircraft still
while the engine was started. after the taxy out and the engine has
warmed you do a run up check to make sure that the magneto circuits
are up to the bit of work that lies ahead for them. the brakes are
applied to hold the aircraft while the revs are bought up and each
maggy checked in turn.

from a design aspect that is the end of the use of a light aircraft's
brakes until after landing and we wish to hold the aircraft still for
shutdown and disembarkation.

of course brakes are brakes and people will use them like they were
driving cars. light aircraft brakes were never designed for slowing an
aircraft when landing.
I know that they get used for that by students of bad piloting
technique but the design intent is a fact borne out by their
diminutive size.

I'll give one concrete example. The Stinson 108 is a huge aircraft, 4
seats in 1940's luxury, yet it only has brake pucks the same size as a
5.00x5 cleveland. in fact on the one Chris M-F ownes the brakes *are*
cleveland 5.00x5 calipers.

it is quite ok to be masters of the world and fly however you like.
you'll just wear out your aeroplanes faster.

just remember though that aircraft brakes are for holding the aircraft
not stopping it.

now brakes for commercial aircraft are different and they *are* used
for stopping, but the brakes on little lighties arent.
some people have yet to realise that.

Stealth Pilot

"Sliker" wrote in message
...
...
Plus, way back when, old light aircraft had crap for brakes. Back when
Stinsons, Swifts, and other postwar aircraft were built, there were no
Cleveland brakes. With those, and clones of them, you can stop just
fine.

Does a 1946 Cessna 120 qualify as a "postwar aircraft"? Brakes were good
enough for stopping hard enough to keep the tail in the air until you
stopped.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

If the brakes were that good, that was a nice exception. The postwar
stuff I flew had lousy brakes. Like the Swift with the orginal
Goodyear brakes. The disk pucks were about as big around as a quarter.
I know they must have known those wouldn't stop the plane.
The Champ had weak brakes too. And just about any of the planes with
heel brakes were pretty weak. And the worst were the ones with
mechanical brakes. I hear that's pretty much what got the old Ford
Model A's off the road. They couldn't pass inspection with mechanical
the installed mechanical brakes. Is there anyone hear that drove
those?

On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 20:00:57 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea
Hawk @See My Sig.com wrote:

"Sliker" wrote in message
.. .
...
Plus, way back when, old light aircraft had crap for brakes. Back when
Stinsons, Swifts, and other postwar aircraft were built, there were no
Cleveland brakes. With those, and clones of them, you can stop just
fine.

Does a 1946 Cessna 120 qualify as a "postwar aircraft"? Brakes were good
enough for stopping hard enough to keep the tail in the air until you
stopped.

On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 20:32:29 -0400, Sliker
wrote:


mechanical brakes. I hear that's pretty much what got the old Ford
Model A's off the road. They couldn't pass inspection with mechanical
the installed mechanical brakes. Is there anyone hear that drove
those?

My '34 Ford had mechanical brakes and if I'm not mistaken the '37 Ford
still had mechanical brakes, maybe even later.

Ed Sullivan

On Aug 1, 7:56*pm, Ed Sullivan wrote:
On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 20:32:29 -0400, Sliker
wrote:

mechanical brakes. I hear that's pretty much what got the old Ford
Model A's off the road. They couldn't pass inspection with mechanical
the installed mechanical brakes. Is there anyone hear that drove
those?

My '34 Ford had mechanical brakes and if I'm not mistaken the '37 Ford
still had mechanical brakes, maybe even later.

Ed Sullivan

37 for sure, don't know about later. What got them off the street was
not inspections but market force. I don't think there even _were_
vehicle inspections back in the late 30s.

Harry K

Ed Sullivan wrote:
On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 20:32:29 -0400, Sliker
wrote:


mechanical brakes. I hear that's pretty much what got the old Ford
Model A's off the road. They couldn't pass inspection with mechanical
the installed mechanical brakes. Is there anyone hear that drove
those?

My '34 Ford had mechanical brakes and if I'm not mistaken the '37 Ford
still had mechanical brakes, maybe even later.

Ed Sullivan

There are still Model A's on the road today. I have a neighbor and an
uncle with bone stock model A's that are licensed and tagged and still
driven regularily on weekends.

Charles

On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 17:59:50 -0500, Charles Vincent
wrote:

Ed Sullivan wrote:
On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 20:32:29 -0400, Sliker
wrote:


mechanical brakes. I hear that's pretty much what got the old Ford
Model A's off the road. They couldn't pass inspection with mechanical
the installed mechanical brakes. Is there anyone hear that drove
those?

My '34 Ford had mechanical brakes and if I'm not mistaken the '37 Ford
still had mechanical brakes, maybe even later.

Ed Sullivan

There are still Model A's on the road today. I have a neighbor and an
uncle with bone stock model A's that are licensed and tagged and still
driven regularily on weekends.

Charles

Actually the mechanical brakes on the model A worked pretty good since
it was so light. For a real thrill the Model T was something else. The
brake band worked on the transmission, if the brake got weak you used
the reverse band.

On Aug 2, 6:16*pm, Ed Sullivan wrote:
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 17:59:50 -0500, Charles Vincent





wrote:
Ed Sullivan wrote:
On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 20:32:29 -0400, Sliker
wrote:

mechanical brakes. I hear that's pretty much what got the old Ford
Model A's off the road. They couldn't pass inspection with mechanical
the installed mechanical brakes. Is there anyone hear that drove
those?

My '34 Ford had mechanical brakes and if I'm not mistaken the '37 Ford
still had mechanical brakes, maybe even later.

Ed Sullivan

There are still Model A's on the road today. *I have a neighbor and an
uncle with bone stock model A's that are licensed and tagged and still
driven regularily on weekends.

Charles

Actually the mechanical brakes on the model A worked pretty good since
it was so light. For a real thrill the Model T was something else. The
brake band worked on the transmission, if the brake got weak you used
the reverse band.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Right. The model A , and I think B, brakes were just as good as the
comparable hydraulic brakes. The problem with them was the need for
repeated adjustments to keep them operating equally on all wheels.
That adjustment is automatic in hydraulic ones.

Harry K

"Ed Sullivan" wrote in message
...
...
Actually the mechanical brakes on the model A worked pretty good since
it was so light. For a real thrill the Model T was something else. The
brake band worked on the transmission, if the brake got weak you used
the reverse band.

Model T brakes were never designed for stopping Model T's. They were
designed for holding the Model T while you cranked it. Just look how
ineffective they are with that skinny band that operated on the rear wheels
only.

;-) :-) :-} ;-) :-) :-} ;-) :-) :-} ;-) :-) :-} ;-) :-) :-} ;-) :-) :-} ;-)
:-) :-}

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:56:57 -0700, Ed Sullivan
wrote:

On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 20:32:29 -0400, Sliker
wrote:


mechanical brakes. I hear that's pretty much what got the old Ford
Model A's off the road. They couldn't pass inspection with mechanical
the installed mechanical brakes. Is there anyone hear that drove
those?

My '34 Ford had mechanical brakes and if I'm not mistaken the '37 Ford
still had mechanical brakes, maybe even later.

Ed Sullivan
I believe 1939 was the last year for mechanicals on Ford (the last
holdout in the American market). 1940-1942 "juicers" were commonly
adapted to "A"s and other early Fords.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **