Is Rafale dead?

Charles Talleyrand wrote:

P.S. Anti-French jokes stopped being funny after the first few hundred.

Just what made you think they were jokes?

--
Jim

carry on




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Your stuborness...

IS the Rafale dead? Nobody answered the question.
BTW the US armed forces, with the exception of the Navy, didn't have
anything to fight with in 1941, let alone 1939. Look it up.
Walt BJ

Most of the "wise cracks" about the U.S. position vis-a-vis the world in the
late '30s demonstrate a remarkable combination of arrogance and ignorance.

For most American opinion makers the experiences of U.S. participation in
WWI were less than satisfactory. The monumental ineptitude of French and
British commanders was memorialized in a series of post-War flicks (such as
"All Quiet on the Western Front"). The writing of men like Hemmingway had
stripped the glory from war. The general attitude was if the foolish
Europeans want to slaughter each other in vast numbers, God bless 'em.

It was clear to the U.S. administration that war in Europe was inevitable
and that U.S. interests would demand U.S. participation. Given the general
population's feelings, any governmental action (particularly during
Depression era times) had to be considered.

Actions there were. In fact, every major U.S. combat aircraft of WWII was
conceived and the prototypes at least on the drawing board by the end of
1940. That year also saw the passage of the first peacetime draft in U.S.
history, the Two Ocean Navy Act, and Lend-Lease. A very late start in the
deveopment of armored vehicles and doctrine was being addressed. The
foundations of the Arsenal of Democracy were being laid.

The Japanese ended American political divisions on "the war question."

Bill Kambic

If, by any act, error, or omission, I have, intentionally or
unintentionally, displayed any breedist, disciplinist, sexist, racist,
culturalist, nationalist, regionalist, localist, ageist, lookist, ableist,
sizeist, speciesist, intellectualist, socioeconomicist, ethnocentrist,
phallocentrist, heteropatriarchalist, or other violation of the rules of
political correctness, known or unknown, I am not sorry and I encourage you
to get over it.

"WaltBJ" wrote in message
om...
IS the Rafale dead? Nobody answered the question.
BTW the US armed forces, with the exception of the Navy, didn't have
anything to fight with in 1941, let alone 1939. Look it up.
Walt BJ

"WaltBJ" wrote
IS the Rafale dead? Nobody answered the question.
BTW the US armed forces, with the exception of the Navy, didn't have
anything to fight with in 1941, let alone 1939. Look it up.

It's not dead but it is very ill, for lack of foreign military sales. France
alone can't manage Rafale procurement at a rate that would give them a
viable force in reasonable time, not when she is funding the A400M, a new
carrier, procurement of the fourth Triomphant.. All those things are also in
competition with social security funding as the French population ages.

"Paul F Austin" wrote in message ...

"WaltBJ" wrote
IS the Rafale dead? Nobody answered the question.
BTW the US armed forces, with the exception of the Navy, didn't have
anything to fight with in 1941, let alone 1939. Look it up.

It's not dead but it is very ill, for lack of foreign military sales. France
alone can't manage Rafale procurement at a rate that would give them a
viable force in reasonable time, not when she is funding the A400M, a new
carrier, procurement of the fourth Triomphant.. All those things are also in
competition with social security funding as the French population ages.

It seems very unlikely that the Rafale will *ever* have a foreign
military sale. The best chance is 25 years from now when France wants
to upgrade, and the planes are both used and cheap. Or maybe politics
can force someone like Taiwan to buy them (but I doubt it).

Seriously, it's hard to imagine the nation that would pick the Rafale
when the Typhoon and the F-16/18 are available.

"Charles Talleyrand" wrote in message
...

"Paul F Austin" wrote in message
...

"WaltBJ" wrote
IS the Rafale dead? Nobody answered the question.
BTW the US armed forces, with the exception of the Navy, didn't have
anything to fight with in 1941, let alone 1939. Look it up.

It's not dead but it is very ill, for lack of foreign military sales.
France
alone can't manage Rafale procurement at a rate that would give them a
viable force in reasonable time, not when she is funding the A400M, a
new
carrier, procurement of the fourth Triomphant.. All those things are
also in
competition with social security funding as the French population ages.

It seems very unlikely that the Rafale will *ever* have a foreign
military sale. The best chance is 25 years from now when France wants
to upgrade, and the planes are both used and cheap. Or maybe politics
can force someone like Taiwan to buy them (but I doubt it).

In the case of Taiwan, politics are what would prevent any possible sale of
Rafale. IIRC the French said "uncle" after their last sale of Mirage 2000's
to Taiwan (back when the US was reluctant to provide the F-16) provoked the
ire of the PRC. ISTR France decided then to promise not to sell further
advanced weapons to Taiwan lest they lose out on (potentially) more
lucrative sales of goods to the PRC.


Seriously, it's hard to imagine the nation that would pick the Rafale
when the Typhoon and the F-16/18 are available.

I suspect that part of Rafale's problem is the perception (mostly
unjustified) of lukewarm interest in it from the French forces themselves,
which is really more of a budgeting problem. It is not a bad airplane, but
the sluggish pace of development, coupled with past overly-optimistic and
premature pronouncements regarding its capabilities (i.e., trying to sell it
as a first-rate multi-role platform when it was still just emerging as a
single role performer) during sales attempts to various nations, have
repeatedly left it in the "also ran" category. Add to that the fact that a
couple of the nations where it has been marketed were more interested in
acheiving/maintaining interoperability with US forces than they were with
French forces. I'd guess that Brazil was their best hope for an export sale,
but last I heard that competition has again been delayed due to money
concerns.

There has been some high-level talk in the recent past of India entering
into a coproduction deal with Dassault on the Mirage 2000-9. If you take the
recent reports of Indian dissatisfaction with the Su-30 into account, and
the potential impact upon plans to coproduce those aircraft in India, the
possibility of the Indians changing horses midstream and maybe looking at
Rafale as its premier future platform is a bit intriguing--rather unlikely
as of yet, but still...

Brooks

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 21:19:46 -0500, "Charles Talleyrand" wrote:


"Paul F Austin" wrote in message ...

"WaltBJ" wrote
IS the Rafale dead? Nobody answered the question.
BTW the US armed forces, with the exception of the Navy, didn't have
anything to fight with in 1941, let alone 1939. Look it up.

It's not dead but it is very ill, for lack of foreign military sales. France
alone can't manage Rafale procurement at a rate that would give them a
viable force in reasonable time, not when she is funding the A400M, a new
carrier, procurement of the fourth Triomphant.. All those things are also in
competition with social security funding as the French population ages.

It seems very unlikely that the Rafale will *ever* have a foreign
military sale. The best chance is 25 years from now when France wants
to upgrade, and the planes are both used and cheap. Or maybe politics
can force someone like Taiwan to buy them (but I doubt it).

Seriously, it's hard to imagine the nation that would pick the Rafale
when the Typhoon and the F-16/18 are available.

Not to mention the F-35. Stealth, VSTOL if desired, CTOL and runway
options available, and quite affordable. About 30 countries are involved
in the project, and will most likely purchase it.

Al Minyard

nemo wrote:

Your stuborness...

Let's see. You call yourself "nemo". That must be from a brightly
colored fish that flaunts itself and then yells help and retreats from
danger to the arms of a sea anemone for protection. Um, that sounds
french. It sure isn't a fictional submarine captain with some ethics.
As, that wouldn't be french.

--
Jim

carry on




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Bla bla bla...


"Jim Herring" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
nemo wrote:

Your stuborness...

Let's see. You call yourself "nemo". That must be from a brightly
colored fish that flaunts itself and then yells help and retreats from
danger to the arms of a sea anemone for protection. Um, that sounds
french. It sure isn't a fictional submarine captain with some ethics.
As, that wouldn't be french.

--
Jim

carry on




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