Ramp Fees

Mike wrote:
"noname" wrote in message
...
I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

Yes, it is legal. When you land at an airport, you are essentially
patronizing a business and the responsibility is with you to investigate
such things beforehand.

I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
rat guide me to parking.

In this case, their fees were clearly posted in the official publication
and the fee advertized was a landing fee, not a ramp fee. So you
incurred that cost as soon as your wheels hit the runway, not when you
taxied to the ramp. It may also be the airport, and not the FBO who is
charging the fee. The FBO may just be the collection point.

No the landing fees are totally different than the ramp fees. The
airport charges the landing fees and the FBO charges the ramp fees.

I was flying with an instructor who works from that airport and was also
totally appalled.
I have yet to see anywhere where it is advertised that there is a $20.00
ramp fee. If anybody can find one, please let me know and I'll accept
that I was taken by my own ignorance.

The afd from the faa says "Parking fee all acft after 2 hrs. Ldg fee all
acft except solo students. Flight Notification Service (ADCUS) available."

In hindsight I should have just pulled the chalks and left with them
hanging on my wing and wait for them to bill me.

Dave

"Dave" wrote in message
...


Mike wrote:
"noname" wrote in message
...
I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

Yes, it is legal. When you land at an airport, you are essentially
patronizing a business and the responsibility is with you to investigate
such things beforehand.

I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
rat guide me to parking.

In this case, their fees were clearly posted in the official publication
and the fee advertized was a landing fee, not a ramp fee. So you
incurred that cost as soon as your wheels hit the runway, not when you
taxied to the ramp. It may also be the airport, and not the FBO who is
charging the fee. The FBO may just be the collection point.

No the landing fees are totally different than the ramp fees. The airport
charges the landing fees and the FBO charges the ramp fees.

The FBO is most likely the collection point for the landing fees.

I was flying with an instructor who works from that airport and was also
totally appalled.
I have yet to see anywhere where it is advertised that there is a $20.00
ramp fee. If anybody can find one, please let me know and I'll accept that
I was taken by my own ignorance.

It's certainly not rare for FBOs to charge a fee for using their ramp,
especially if you are not buying fuel. Typically they are leasing that ramp
space from the owner of the airport, and if that space is limited you can
bet they are going to discourage non-customer aircraft from using it. Your
instructor should have known that, especially if he's based there.

From the airport diagram, there are several parking areas listed other than
the ramp. Why didn't you use one of those? Even with FBOs that don't
charge a ramp fee, it's bad form to use their ramp if you're not a customer
and there's other space available. The reason is because they are going to
send someone out to park you, chalk your aircraft, put down the red carpet,
and/or put cones around your aircraft because they assume you are a
customer.

On Aug 29, 8:39*am, "Mike" wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message

...







Mike wrote:
"noname" wrote in message
....
I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

Yes, it is legal. *When you land at an airport, you are essentially
patronizing a business and the responsibility is with you to investigate
such things beforehand.

I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
rat guide me to parking.

In this case, their fees were clearly posted in the official publication
and the fee advertized was a landing fee, not a ramp fee. *So you
incurred that cost as soon as your wheels hit the runway, not when you
taxied to the ramp. It may also be the airport, and not the FBO who is
charging the fee. *The FBO may just be the collection point.

No the landing fees are totally different than the ramp fees. The airport
charges the landing fees and the FBO charges the ramp fees.

The FBO is most likely the collection point for the landing fees.

I was flying with an instructor who works from that airport and was also
totally appalled.
I have yet to see anywhere where it is advertised that there is a $20.00
ramp fee. If anybody can find one, please let me know and I'll accept that
I was taken by my own ignorance.

It's certainly not rare for FBOs to charge a fee for using their ramp,
especially if you are not buying fuel. *Typically they are leasing that ramp
space from the owner of the airport, and if that space is limited you can
bet they are going to discourage non-customer aircraft from using it. *Your
instructor should have known that, especially if he's based there.

From the airport diagram, there are several parking areas listed other than
the ramp. *Why didn't you use one of those? *Even with FBOs that don't
charge a ramp fee, it's bad form to use their ramp if you're not a customer
and there's other space available. *The reason is because they are going to
send someone out to park you, chalk your aircraft, put down the red carpet,
and/or put cones around your aircraft because they assume you are a
customer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I understand about ramp fees and why they are used. There was no
information anywhere about charging the ramp fee.
When told there was a ramp fee, they gave me no option to move the
airplane and go. I didn't ask to be parked.

I was picking up the instructor.

"noname" wrote in message
...
On Aug 29, 8:39 am, "Mike" wrote:
snip
It's certainly not rare for FBOs to charge a fee for using their ramp,
especially if you are not buying fuel. Typically they are leasing that
ramp
space from the owner of the airport, and if that space is limited you
can
bet they are going to discourage non-customer aircraft from using it.
Your
instructor should have known that, especially if he's based there.

From the airport diagram, there are several parking areas listed other
than
the ramp. Why didn't you use one of those? Even with FBOs that don't
charge a ramp fee, it's bad form to use their ramp if you're not a
customer
and there's other space available. The reason is because they are going
to
send someone out to park you, chalk your aircraft, put down the red
carpet,
and/or put cones around your aircraft because they assume you are a
customer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I understand about ramp fees and why they are used. There was no
information anywhere about charging the ramp fee.
When told there was a ramp fee, they gave me no option to move the
airplane and go. I didn't ask to be parked.

I was picking up the instructor.

The situation you describe is not unique. I've seen other FBOs that do it.
I don't like it any better than you do and I think it's CS, but I understand
why they do it. Most airports are great to deal with and never charge any
fees, but you can't expect those courtesies everywhere.

FBO's like that don't really care if you are asking for the parking service
or not. They assume a certain amount of liability for your aircraft and
othe others that are on the ramp. That's why they do it.

There are airports that don't advertize a landing fee in the A/FD (or
anywhere else) also, but if you land there, they will hand you a bill.

It's only $20.00, what's the big deal.
"Mike" wrote in message
news6Ytk.34$jE1.14@trnddc03...
"noname" wrote in message
...
On Aug 29, 8:39 am, "Mike" wrote:
snip
It's certainly not rare for FBOs to charge a fee for using their ramp,
especially if you are not buying fuel. Typically they are leasing that
ramp
space from the owner of the airport, and if that space is limited you
can
bet they are going to discourage non-customer aircraft from using it.
Your
instructor should have known that, especially if he's based there.

From the airport diagram, there are several parking areas listed other
than
the ramp. Why didn't you use one of those? Even with FBOs that don't
charge a ramp fee, it's bad form to use their ramp if you're not a
customer
and there's other space available. The reason is because they are going
to
send someone out to park you, chalk your aircraft, put down the red
carpet,
and/or put cones around your aircraft because they assume you are a
customer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I understand about ramp fees and why they are used. There was no
information anywhere about charging the ramp fee.
When told there was a ramp fee, they gave me no option to move the
airplane and go. I didn't ask to be parked.

I was picking up the instructor.

The situation you describe is not unique. I've seen other FBOs that do
it. I don't like it any better than you do and I think it's CS, but I
understand why they do it. Most airports are great to deal with and never
charge any fees, but you can't expect those courtesies everywhere.

FBO's like that don't really care if you are asking for the parking
service or not. They assume a certain amount of liability for your
aircraft and othe others that are on the ramp. That's why they do it.

There are airports that don't advertize a landing fee in the A/FD (or
anywhere else) also, but if you land there, they will hand you a bill.

"Clyde Woempner" wrote

It's only $20.00, what's the big deal.

Oh, you won't mind putting a check for $20 in the mail, and sending it to
him, would you?

It's only $20, after all.

The point is that he was made to pay, with no option to not pay _even if he
left_ without getting ANY service.
--
Jim in NC