Just push the blue button!

"Gezellig" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 18:28:40 GMT, Mike wrote:

"Gezellig" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 16:45:48 GMT, Mike wrote:

"Gezellig" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 16:08:06 GMT, Mike wrote:

At the time of the accident, John-John was training to get his
instrument
ticket and he had flown in IMC with an instructor at night. Although
he
wasn't ready for his checkride, he also wasn't completely ignorant of
IFR.
Clearly he was a victim of spatial disorientation, which certainly
can
happen at night, but that particular night he had at least some
moonlight.
That's why I think he probably got into a bit of IMC and lost it
before
the
crash. I think it would have taken more than just a bit of haze to
trip
him
up.

He couldn't multi-task and was in MT overload adding spatial
disorientation, pitiful pre-flight and a bad foot. He screwed the
pooch
when he failed to redirect his bank prior to pitch, spiral city.

His CFIs should have picked up on this MT thing..perhaps.

They did.

"The CFI stated that the pilot's basic instrument flying skills and
simulator work were excellent. However, the CFI stated that the pilot
had
trouble managing multiple tasks while flying, which he felt was normal
for
the pilot's level of experience."

Hmmmm, 300 hours dual and still having this problem. It was his
decision, probably thinking that he could auto pilot most of the way. So
many majorly bad decisions.

1) He didn't have 300 hours of dual, but even if he did that would be
mostly
irrelevant. You learn how to multitask better solo than you do with
another
pilot on board.

That concept worked real good for Kennedy, didn't it? Multi-tasking is
both a learned and an ingrained art. Some are best taught with co-pilot
guidance. Which do you think Kennedy was considering his fate?

2) What part of "...he felt was normal for the pilot's level of
experience."
didn't you understand?

None.

I've flown with plenty of 300 hour pilots who don't multitask well and
some
of them had their instrument and commercial. I didn't multitask well at
300
hours. That's something you pick up with experience.

I've flown with many that have picked up MT skills well under 300. It's
not a black-white consideration.

Some do, but it's certainly not out of line that he didn't. As far as his
decision making goes, the actual conditions turned out worse than anyone had
forecast. Flying at night can always turn into a hazardous situation, but
Kennedy had flown a considerable amount of time with an instructor at night,
and he was working on his instrument ticket. So he was genuinely interested
in improving his flying skills and there's nothing to indicate he made any
bad decisions. My guess is he probably attempted too steep of a turn and
had no idea he was in any danger of spacial disorientation because he didn't
recognize that he was in instrument conditions. Unfortunately it's a common
mistake for low time pilots and lots of them kill themselves that way.

On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 12:45:00 GMT, Mike wrote:

I've flown with plenty of 300 hour pilots who don't multitask well and
some
of them had their instrument and commercial. I didn't multitask well at
300
hours. That's something you pick up with experience.

I've flown with many that have picked up MT skills well under 300. It's
not a black-white consideration.

Some do, but it's certainly not out of line that he didn't. As far as his
decision making goes, the actual conditions turned out worse than anyone had
forecast. Flying at night can always turn into a hazardous situation, but
Kennedy had flown a considerable amount of time with an instructor at night,
and he was working on his instrument ticket. So he was genuinely interested
in improving his flying skills and there's nothing to indicate he made any
bad decisions.

If you mean before he spun, I would heavily disagree.

My guess is he probably attempted too steep of a turn and
had no idea he was in any danger of spacial disorientation because he didn't
recognize that he was in instrument conditions. Unfortunately it's a common
mistake for low time pilots and lots of them kill themselves that way.

This is your neck of the woods, if he had called you up, would you have
said "Go"?

"Gezellig" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 12:45:00 GMT, Mike wrote:

I've flown with plenty of 300 hour pilots who don't multitask well and
some
of them had their instrument and commercial. I didn't multitask well
at
300
hours. That's something you pick up with experience.

I've flown with many that have picked up MT skills well under 300. It's
not a black-white consideration.

Some do, but it's certainly not out of line that he didn't. As far as
his
decision making goes, the actual conditions turned out worse than anyone
had
forecast. Flying at night can always turn into a hazardous situation,
but
Kennedy had flown a considerable amount of time with an instructor at
night,
and he was working on his instrument ticket. So he was genuinely
interested
in improving his flying skills and there's nothing to indicate he made
any
bad decisions.

If you mean before he spun, I would heavily disagree.

My guess is he probably attempted too steep of a turn and
had no idea he was in any danger of spacial disorientation because he
didn't
recognize that he was in instrument conditions. Unfortunately it's a
common
mistake for low time pilots and lots of them kill themselves that way.

This is your neck of the woods, if he had called you up, would you have
said "Go"?

I never tell anyone if they should go or not. That's their own decision to
make.

20% of fatal GA accidents are at night even though night flights make up
only 5% of the GA traffic. Of those fatal accidents, the most common is
exactly the situation that Kennedy found himself. So it wasn't as if
Kennedy was in an easy situation and did something monumentally stupid.

On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 18:54:44 GMT, Mike wrote:

"Gezellig" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 12:45:00 GMT, Mike wrote:

I've flown with plenty of 300 hour pilots who don't multitask well and
some
of them had their instrument and commercial. I didn't multitask well
at
300
hours. That's something you pick up with experience.

I've flown with many that have picked up MT skills well under 300. It's
not a black-white consideration.

Some do, but it's certainly not out of line that he didn't. As far as
his
decision making goes, the actual conditions turned out worse than anyone
had
forecast. Flying at night can always turn into a hazardous situation,
but
Kennedy had flown a considerable amount of time with an instructor at
night,
and he was working on his instrument ticket. So he was genuinely
interested
in improving his flying skills and there's nothing to indicate he made
any
bad decisions.

If you mean before he spun, I would heavily disagree.

My guess is he probably attempted too steep of a turn and
had no idea he was in any danger of spacial disorientation because he
didn't
recognize that he was in instrument conditions. Unfortunately it's a
common
mistake for low time pilots and lots of them kill themselves that way.

This is your neck of the woods, if he had called you up, would you have
said "Go"?

I never tell anyone if they should go or not. That's their own decision to
make.

20% of fatal GA accidents are at night even though night flights make up
only 5% of the GA traffic. Of those fatal accidents, the most common is
exactly the situation that Kennedy found himself. So it wasn't as if
Kennedy was in an easy situation and did something monumentally stupid.

The chain of mistakes he made was at least a small monument to
stupidity, imo.

"Gezellig" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 18:54:44 GMT, Mike wrote:

"Gezellig" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 12:45:00 GMT, Mike wrote:

I've flown with plenty of 300 hour pilots who don't multitask well
and
some
of them had their instrument and commercial. I didn't multitask well
at
300
hours. That's something you pick up with experience.

I've flown with many that have picked up MT skills well under 300.
It's
not a black-white consideration.

Some do, but it's certainly not out of line that he didn't. As far as
his
decision making goes, the actual conditions turned out worse than
anyone
had
forecast. Flying at night can always turn into a hazardous situation,
but
Kennedy had flown a considerable amount of time with an instructor at
night,
and he was working on his instrument ticket. So he was genuinely
interested
in improving his flying skills and there's nothing to indicate he made
any
bad decisions.

If you mean before he spun, I would heavily disagree.

My guess is he probably attempted too steep of a turn and
had no idea he was in any danger of spacial disorientation because he
didn't
recognize that he was in instrument conditions. Unfortunately it's a
common
mistake for low time pilots and lots of them kill themselves that way.

This is your neck of the woods, if he had called you up, would you have
said "Go"?

I never tell anyone if they should go or not. That's their own decision
to
make.

20% of fatal GA accidents are at night even though night flights make up
only 5% of the GA traffic. Of those fatal accidents, the most common is
exactly the situation that Kennedy found himself. So it wasn't as if
Kennedy was in an easy situation and did something monumentally stupid.

The chain of mistakes he made was at least a small monument to
stupidity, imo.

No more so than the dozens of people who manage to kill themselves the same
way each year. To simply dismiss Kennedy as stupid and unskilled negates
any educational value which can be derived from the accident. Personally I
prefer to learn from the mistakes of others.

Mike writes:

To simply dismiss Kennedy as stupid and unskilled negates
any educational value which can be derived from the accident.

Other sources I've read indicate that he wasn't very skilled or intelligent
and had a tendency to be careless.

"Mxsmanic"
Other sources I've read indicate that he wasn't very skilled or
intelligent
and had a tendency to be careless.

At least he was actually a pilot and flew real airplanes, which is a few
orders of magnitude more than you've ever done.

On Oct 8, 11:14*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Mike writes:
To simply dismiss Kennedy as stupid and unskilled negates
any educational value which can be derived from the accident.

Other sources I've read indicate that he wasn't very skilled or intelligent
and had a tendency to be careless.

Would you care to offer a reference for your comment regarding Jfk
Jr's intelligence? I had reason to look into this crash and pilot and
found ample evidence regarding bad judgment and risk taking but no
references regarding intelligence (as the word is commonly understood
-- distortions of its meaning are not welcome.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Mike writes:

To simply dismiss Kennedy as stupid and unskilled negates
any educational value which can be derived from the accident.

Other sources I've read indicate that he wasn't very skilled or
intelligent and had a tendency to be careless.


You're a fjukkwit.


Bertie

On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 23:05:13 GMT, Mike wrote:

I never tell anyone if they should go or not. That's their own decision
to
make.

20% of fatal GA accidents are at night even though night flights make up
only 5% of the GA traffic. Of those fatal accidents, the most common is
exactly the situation that Kennedy found himself. So it wasn't as if
Kennedy was in an easy situation and did something monumentally stupid.

The chain of mistakes he made was at least a small monument to
stupidity, imo.

No more so than the dozens of people who manage to kill themselves the same
way each year. To simply dismiss Kennedy as stupid and unskilled negates
any educational value which can be derived from the accident. Personally I
prefer to learn from the mistakes of others.

To claim that stupidity is rampant doesn't dilute Kennedy's chain of
stupid mistakes. I dismissed nothing, I made an opine which was clear.

Is it not educational to learn when someone made a slew of stupid
mistakes?