New Pilot Advice

I disagree. If the instructor is incompetent - and this one sounds
rotten - then the pupil should tke the initiative and get another one.

I had this happen when I was getting my power ticket. The instructor
so micro-managed that by the end of the flight lessons I would give
him the controls and say "you land it". At the time I was a rated
glider pilot with almost 400 hours. The FBO recognized there was a
problem and assigned me another instructor...................problem
solved.

I learned to fly when I was in my late teens/early 20's..........I was
really in to learning to fly gliders, and was fearless. Not sure if
this was a good thing or not............flash forward to now and
almost 2000 hours, 1500 in sailplanes, the rest in hang gliders and
SEL. I still get that feeling in the gut at times that tells me to pay
full attention to what I am doing...........I also listen to my inner
voice when it tells me to stay on the ground, or to scale back my
flight goals for the day. I think this is a very important skill to
nurture, along with all the others required to operate safely in the
sky.

I also have a whole bunch of "oh S_ _ T" stories in all 3 types of
craft I've flown over the years. I survived all of them, learned from
all of them, and also strongly believe they shaped the type of pilot I
have become.

My advice............if this is what you want to do, most likely you
will be succsesful....................good luck!

Brad
199AK

Welcome to soaring! Sounds like you went up on a day high time pilots
would call fun. Don't worry, most students or passengers, would be sick
by the time you got off tow. What you probably experienced was a feeling
of loss of control. The fact that you recognized that you were getting
airsick and ask to come down before you threw up, is a good sign.
Lots of (daredevil types) pilots get airsick when learning to fly. When
the instructor has to take control in these conditions, you lose
confidence in your ability to control the glider. All you learned in
rough air, is that you are not ready to handle the conditions. No
different than a beginning mountain biker on a trail way over his head.
Lucky for you, the instructor can take over when you loose control in a
glider. The instructor has a tendency to expose you to rougher conditions
than he would a meeker student. The fear you experience is no different
than when you started down a narley MTB trail the first time.
Primary instruction (at least in the beginning phase) should occur in
mild conditions. Arrive at the airport early in the day or later when
conditions are calmer. As, your lessons progress, you will learn that you
can handle the conditions and remain in control of the glider. Don,t worry
about thermaling or or staying up in rough conditions yet. Lots of high
time pilot got sick early on. Myself, I was airsick in 15 minutes, for
about the first 10 lessons. As I progressed, the airsickness slowly went
away. By the way, I have been flying and mountain biking for 30 years, and
neither is boring.

Ed Gaddy, Cycle Logic Bicycle Shop

On 11 Nov, 16:43, Cats wrote:

Therefore, 2) never stay in
the air just because you *think* the instructor wants to. If you
discuss it and they actually do want you to stay up, ask why and if
you are not happy with the answer insist on going back down.

Absolutely. In fact I would go further and say "never waste time
wondering what instructors want you to do". Ask them! You're supposed
to be learning how to fly a glider, not to predict how someone else
would do it - and instructional flights are for the benefit of One
Person Only.

Ian

On Nov 11, 11:15*am, Ed Gaddy wrote:
*Welcome to soaring! Sounds like you went up on a day high time pilots
would call fun. Don't worry, most students or passengers, would be sick
by the time you got off tow. What you probably experienced was a feeling
of loss of control. The fact that you recognized that you were getting
airsick and ask to come down before you threw up, is a good sign.
*Lots of (daredevil types) pilots get airsick when learning to fly. When
the instructor has to take control in these conditions, you lose
confidence in your ability to control the glider. All you learned in
rough air, is that you are not ready to handle the conditions. No
different than a beginning mountain biker on a trail way over his head.
Lucky for you, the instructor can take over when you loose control in a
glider. The instructor has a tendency to expose you to rougher conditions
than he would a meeker student. The fear you experience is no different
than when you started down a narley MTB trail the first time.
*Primary instruction (at least in the beginning phase) should occur in
mild conditions. Arrive at the airport early in the day or later when
conditions are calmer. As, your lessons progress, you will learn that you
can handle the conditions and remain in control of the glider. Don,t worry
about thermaling or or staying up in rough conditions yet. Lots of high
time pilot got sick early on. Myself, I was airsick in 15 minutes, for
about the first 10 lessons. As I progressed, the airsickness slowly went
away. By the way, I have been flying and mountain biking for 30 years, and
neither is boring.

Ed Gaddy, * *Cycle Logic Bicycle Shop

Great post Ed. And by the way, I'm looking for a 32 hole Mavic GP4.
Any leads?

Matt Michael CFIG

First of all folks I do not blame my instructor. He was excellent. I
was very understated in my inflight compliants to the instructor. In
fact I think he was excellent. 1) he took over the plane immediatelly
when he thought we hit something nasty. 2) each time there was a
problem he gave me time to settle down and then asked me if I wanted
to take over, but did not force it on me 3) when I told him I was
getting a little air sick-he asked if I wanted to go down I said no
and managed to get through about 15 to 20 min more of flight 4) we
worked as a team when doing the thermals taking turns flying and when
I was not flying I was the spotter as you all know in the back seat
the visuals are resticted this was very instructive and I learned a
lot 5) when I did let him know I was feeling worse he went down and
landed right away. After about an hour on the ground I was fine.
During the flight he kept up a runnig commentary on speed, climb and
sink, thermal climbing, other planes, landmarks, the planes L/D ratio
and our distance from the AP an other little verbal tests.

Actually I wanted to try and land the plane as I had already done that
the previous 4 flights but he did not let me. We had a good debrief
and he did say conditions were rough but it would take awhile to get
used to and he was sure I could do it.

Cats wrote:

Let's hope the OP wasn't flying *with* the CFI!


Terminology, folks. On the left side of the pond, CFI is Certified
Flight instructor - not Chief Flight Instructor.

Tony V.

On Nov 10, 7:18*pm, wrote:
....When we got down on the ground I did not want the instructor to
notice
but my knees were shaking. I do not scare easily, I have had a lot of
other hobbies where danger is involved. My question to you experienced
pilots is this fear normal? I was really frightened. If you knew me
I'd never admit it to you. Is this something you can get over? This
experience left me wondering is this hobby for me?

Good evening , You ask some penetrating questions.
Here is my response to help you sort out the risks, as well as the
rewards, of soaring.
It's your call!
Safe soaring,
Bob Wander

PS: During turbulence of any kind, whether on aerotow or in free
flight, it's amazing how a really snug & secure lap belt shoulder
harness combination can make you feel that you can handle just about
anything that comes along. And on the other hand, if lap belt /
shoulder harness are loose, it makes one feel ... vulnerable. So
tighten up!

++++++++++
The following is excerpted from my book "Everybody's First Gliding
Book".

"Risk Management & Soaring.
If you are fairly new to soaring, chances are that you've spent some
time evaluating the risks that accompany the rewards of our sport.
Chances are also good that you have reached several conclusions, as
follow.
1) There are risks inherent in any air sport (including soaring) and
2) You don't yet know enough about the sport of soaring to recognize,
understand, and evaluate all of those risks.
This article will help you discover what the principal risks are, and
how you can manage them.

Risk is inherent in every human enterprise. Activity sports such as
skiing, tennis, and rock climbing entail risk. Humdrum daily chores
like driving an automobile or slicing an onion entail risk. Traveling
on a commercial airliner entails risk. Entering into marriage entails
risk. Having children entails risk. Career choices entail risk.

Even just sitting around, avoiding every possible identifiable risk
factor, doing absolutely nothing with your life, entails risk: The
risk that, if ever you come to your senses, you will be running out of
time to do worthwhile and satisfying things in the remaining lifetime
allotted to you.

In short, risk is everywhere. That's life! The trick is to strike an
acceptable balance between the risks and the rewards.

So... what are the major risks in soaring? Major risks are the risks
that pose a threat to life and limb. Here they are, and here is what
you can do to manage each risk.

An improperly prepared glider or towplane can hurt you in a hurry.
When you take to the air, your aircraft is nothing less than your life
support system. A glider that is improperly assembled (rigged), or
that is incompletely assembled, is a potential deathtrap. There is no
room for carelessness or oversight when it comes to preparing and
inspecting your life support system before flight. Ask your CFIG for
ground instruction on how to perform a pre-flight inspection and a
positive control check. Towpilots should apply the same level of care
to pre-flighting each towplane system (fuel, engine, prop, flight
controls, tow hook and tow release mechanism, tires and wheelbrakes,
etc.) not only for your protection but to protect their own skins too.
Naturally, the towline and rings should get careful scrutiny as well.
In some aerotow glider operations, glider pilots expect the towpilot
to keep an eye on the condition of the towline. I don't think that you
would be wise to buy that line of thinking, if only for the reason
that it isn't the towpilot who gets tossed into the stewpot when the
towline breaks - it's the glider pilot. Your job as a glider pilot is
to stay out of stewpots whenever possible, so make it a habit to get a
good close look at the towlines and rings.

Any launch, at any time, has the possibility of failing. Work with
your CFIG to develop skill and confidence in dealing with launch
failures, whether simulated or real.

After takeoff, climbout, and release, you and your glider are in free
flight. Mid-air collision avoidance requires you to remain alert and
to focus your eyes and attention outside the cockpit. Areas and
airspaces of concentrated air traffic include thermals with a gaggle
of gliders, Victor airways, the perimeter of Class B and Class C
airspace, airspace that is near airports and gliderports, Military
Operations Areas (MOAs), and other traffic concentrators. Acquire a
current sectional chart and ask your glider flight instructor and
cross country glider pilots to help you identify the high density
traffic areas near the gliderport where you fly. Hunt the skies for
other aircraft. See them and avoid them.

Another risk factor in free flight is internal - it is you, and the
judgments that you make (or sometimes fail to make). As a rule, air
sports are not particularly forgiving of general carelessness. If you
fail to maintain situational awareness, or if you fail to exercise
reasonable in-flight judgment, you can find yourself in a jam so
sticky that your budding stick-and-rudder skills are insufficient to
get you unstuck.

The approach to landing is one of the most critical flight phases, and
it is in this phase of flight that the majority of serious accidents
occur. The principal risks in the landing phase of flight include
collision with other air traffic, landing short of the intended
runway, and stalling and/or spinning.

Airports tend to concentrate air traffic in the same way that beehives
tend to concentrate bee traffic. Airports are where aircraft live when
they are not flying, and airports are where aircraft are usually
headed when they are flying. Arrive at your destination airport with
plenty of time and altitude to scope out the situation, detect other
traffic, and make an orderly approach and landing. Maintain the target
airspeed and coordinate your turns in the approach. Remember that the
traffic pattern is not an end itself, but is only a means to an end -
the desired end result is a safe landing. At the appropriate stage in
your flight training program, ask your CFIG for ground and flight
instruction in how to make a safe landing from an abnormal position in
the approach.

Management of your personal risk is your personal business. No one
else can manage this risk for you. That is one of the great
attractions of soaring: The decisions that you make are important
decisions. It is entirely up to you."

On Nov 11, 8:24*am, Ian wrote:
On 11 Nov, 05:47, wrote:

But, as has been said by another poster, your training is a matter
solely between you and your instructor.

I disagree. If the instructor is incompetent - and this one sounds
rotten - then the pupil should tke the initiative and get another one.
If it was a UK gliding club I'd hope the OP would discuss the
situation rankly with his CFI (Chief Flying Instructor) and that the
CFI would have the sense to deal with the instructor.

Ian

I disagree with you Ian - or perhaps you missed my intent. If you take
instruction from r.a.s. you have dozens of "instructors" - which means
you really have no instructor at all and no accountability to the
student or the official bodies that license instructors. Best to keep
official instruction between the two people who are actually in the
glider. That was the point of my disclaimer. For instance, if I had
suggested that the best advice when you find yourself flying on tow in
turbulent conditions is to pull the speedbrakes all the way ou. What
if the the unsuspecting student just happened to try the advice on his
next flight - who would be accountable? Not me - I'm not even licensed
to instruct. The CFI? He was just taken totally by surprise. The
student? Maybe - he took instruction over the Internet.

Should anyone decide they need to change instructors, that is still
between them and their old/new instructor. I'm also no that sure that
a r.a.s. thread is sufficient evidence to judge the competence of an
instructor - in the US there are official channels and processes for
judging such things. I guess it's fine to suggest someone take an
instructional flight or two from someone else to see if the chemistry
is better for learning, but calling someone incompetent or rotten
based on a post here that didn't even raise the issue in the first
place is a bit over the top.

9B