Perlan 2 Project Updates

Construction progress files and some great past photos of Steve
Fosset.


michael
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http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?...&showfile=7169

On Feb 15, 10:30*am, wrote:
Construction progress files and some great past photos of Steve
Fosset.

michael
---------------------------------------------------------

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?...&showfile=7169

Maybe, it isn't necessary to build a pressurized glider. MIT's Prof.
Dava Newman has a space suit that should work in an unpressurized
glider cockpit. Just add low Reynolds Number wings

See: http://mvl.mit.edu/EVA/biosuit/index.html

I've had the pleasure of speaking with Einar Enevoldson (the man
behind the Perlan Project), and watching his presentations on the
subject.

They used pressure suits during Phase 1 (when they went to 50,000+
feet in a highly modified DG-505).

It turns out that the suits caused all kinds of problems - not the
least of which was controllability; since the pressure suits inflate
with altitude, and that crowds the stick between one's legs (they had
some near-mishaps when pressure suits would malfunction and suddenly
inflate fully - locking the control stick in one position). Plus, the
power and pressurized gasses required for the suits added a bunch of
weight and bulk to the aircraft - and gliders aren't known for their
baggage areas!

In the end, it was determined that a pressurized double-hull (a la
SpaceShipOne) was the way to go. And Einar has flown all kinds of
experimental aircraft over a long career that spans the globe - he's
done the research and has the experience! If you ever get a chance to
see him speak, you should - he's a very engaging person and has plenty
of great stories.
(side note: Speaking of SpaceShipOne, Einar flew a highly modified
Schweizer that could descend in a similar manner to the "feathering"
that SSO does... coincidence?)

Take care,

--Noel

On Feb 15, 2:33*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
I've had the pleasure of speaking with Einar Enevoldson (the man
behind the Perlan Project), and watching his presentations on the
subject.

They used pressure suits during Phase 1 (when they went to 50,000+
feet in a highly modified DG-505).

It turns out that the suits caused all kinds of problems - not the
least of which was controllability; since the pressure suits inflate
with altitude, and that crowds the stick between one's legs (they had
some near-mishaps when pressure suits would malfunction and suddenly
inflate fully - locking the control stick in one position). *Plus, the
power and pressurized gasses required for the suits added a bunch of
weight and bulk to the aircraft - and gliders aren't known for their
baggage areas!

In the end, it was determined that a pressurized double-hull (a la
SpaceShipOne) was the way to go. *And Einar has flown all kinds of
experimental aircraft over a long career that spans the globe - he's
done the research and has the experience! *If you ever get a chance to
see him speak, you should - he's a very engaging person and has plenty
of great stories.
(side note: Speaking of SpaceShipOne, Einar flew a highly modified
Schweizer that could descend in a similar manner to the "feathering"
that SSO does... coincidence?)

Take care,

--Noel

I've also heard Einar Enevoldson talk about Perlan.

That's exactly why Dr. Newman developed the Bio-Suit. It doesn't
inflate - or stiffen so it shouldn't interfere with the controls like
the suits Steve and Einar used. Please read the MIT article.

On Feb 15, 1:44*pm, bildan wrote:

That's exactly why Dr. Newman developed the *Bio-Suit...

Looks to me much more like "is developing" rather than "developed.".
According to that Web page, all they have so far is ideas, mockups,
and a few partial prototypes. It does not look like the sort of thing
I would rely on as a primary life support system for a 12-hour profile
anytime in the near future.

Thanks, Bob K.

On Feb 15, 4:57*pm, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Feb 15, 1:44*pm, bildan wrote:

That's exactly why Dr. Newman developed the *Bio-Suit...

Looks to me much more like "is developing" rather than "developed.".
According to that Web page, all they have so far is ideas, mockups,
and a few partial prototypes. It does not look like the sort of thing
I would rely on as a primary life support system for a 12-hour profile
anytime in the near future.

Thanks, Bob K.

The literature from 4 years ago says Dr. Newman has personally tested
her suit at 95% of space vacuum.

On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 17:21:59 -0800 (PST), bildan
wrote:


The literature from 4 years ago says Dr. Newman has personally tested
her suit at 95% of space vacuum.

Well... a pressure suit is not something you want to test in an
enviroment where its failure means inevitable death...


Bye
Andreas

On Feb 16, 9:17*am, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 17:21:59 -0800 (PST), bildan
wrote:

The literature from 4 years ago says Dr. Newman has personally tested
her suit at 95% of space vacuum.

Well... *a pressure suit is not something you want to test in an
enviroment where its failure means inevitable death...

Bye
Andreas

All pressure suits undergo extensive testing without a human inside
but sooner or later, someone has to put it on and test it in a
vacuum. I'm sure MIT is not careless. The Bio-Suit project is well
funded and peer reviewed.

Explosive decompression to hard vacuum is something that has been
deliberately tested on large primates and by accident on a few
humans. The subject will survive a minute or so and, if pressure and
oxygen are restored within that time, will fully recover. It IS an
injury accident, and something to avoid at all costs, but not
necessarily fatal or even disabling.

Citations:
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/as...rs/970603.html

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question...re/q0291.shtml

It's true the Bio-Suit hasn't been tested in flight but neither has a
pressurized glider cockpit at altitudes above that which has been
achieved without pressurization. It's not clear to me which will be
the better solution for flights above FL 500.

It's true the Bio-Suit hasn't been tested in flight but neither has a
pressurized glider cockpit at altitudes above that which has been
achieved without pressurization. *It's not clear to me which will be
the better solution for flights above FL 500.

I bet the pressurized cockpit is waaay cheaper than bleeding edge
spacesuits... but the suits are pretty darn neat, and will probably
cost a lot less to maintain/operate then a normal pressure suit in
addition to the obvious mobility advantages. The x-crossed mesh bits
of it remind me of the Predator (scifi alien)...

Does this mean the future is here? I also saw practical (1/2hr
duration...) jetpacks are now only a couple hundred grand, inc
training...

-Paul

On Feb 16, 12:00*pm, sisu1a wrote:
It's true the Bio-Suit hasn't been tested in flight but neither has a
pressurized glider cockpit at altitudes above that which has been
achieved without pressurization. *It's not clear to me which will be
the better solution for flights above FL 500.

I bet the pressurized cockpit is waaay cheaper than bleeding edge
spacesuits... *but the suits are pretty darn neat, and will probably
cost a lot less to maintain/operate then a normal pressure suit in
addition to the obvious mobility advantages. The x-crossed mesh bits
of it remind me of the Predator (scifi alien)...

Does this mean the future is here? I also saw practical (1/2hr
duration...) jetpacks are now only a couple hundred grand, inc
training...

-Paul

No doubt the Bio-Suit would be extremely expensive - though possibly
no more so than mainstream suits. However, it's exactly the radical
kind of idea that is very hard to sell to conservative NASA engineers.

If I were with the Perlan Project, or someone who wanted to compete
with them, I'd approach the MIT Bio-Suit team to ask if they thought a
high-profile FL900 altitude record sailplane flight might help sell
their idea to NASA. They might be interested.

Note that the pressure atFL900 feet is about 0.25 PSI and the pressure
at FL400 feet is 2.72 PSI so if you were willing to breathe pure O2 at
a suit altitude of 40,000', the suit pressure differential need only
be 2.2 PSI.

Finally, even with a pressurized cockpit, wearing a pressure suit
backup makes a lot of sense.