USA: Regional Contest Entry w/ Drop Outs

The Region 3 Contest was just canceled in Dansville when 5 people
within the last week of the contest withdrew. Doesn't sound like a big
deal but when you only have 20 pilots signed up, its a huge deal.

Now reading Charlie “Lite” Minner 's Region 9N report, they had 20
pilots bail out of the contest within the last week or simply didn't
show up. They were planning for 50 pilots and only now have 30 pilots.
This is a huge impact on the contest staff and simply is not fair to
the efforts that the have put into planning the event.

What do you think is going on? Is this an economic problem or an aging
soaring population?
How do we prevent these issues from causing future organizers from
saying "forget it" to hosting a contest?
Thoughts?

Tim Hanke "H"
Region 3 Contest Registration

From another perspective, out here in Region 11, we often end up running
regional contests with as few as 7 or 8 pilots. What kind of organizer
cancels the event less than a week before, as a result of dropping from 20
to 15 entrants? I'd certainly think twice before planning to attend an
event put on by organizers who give up that easily...

Marc

At 23:25 12 August 2009, Tim Hanke wrote:
The Region 3 Contest was just canceled in Dansville when 5 people
within the last week of the contest withdrew. Doesn't sound like a big
deal but when you only have 20 pilots signed up, its a huge deal.

Now reading Charlie =93Lite=94 Minner 's Region 9N report, they had 20
pilots bail out of the contest within the last week or simply didn't
show up. They were planning for 50 pilots and only now have 30 pilots.
This is a huge impact on the contest staff and simply is not fair to
the efforts that the have put into planning the event.

What do you think is going on? Is this an economic problem or an aging
soaring population?
How do we prevent these issues from causing future organizers from
saying "forget it" to hosting a contest?
Thoughts?

Tim Hanke "H"
Region 3 Contest Registration

Tim,

No doubt the economy is part of it, but who can tell for sure.

There is absolutely a way to prevent this from causing problems for
future organizers: increase the required deposit, and make most or all
of it non-refundable inside a window of time before the contest.

The organizers make firm commitments with tow pilots and other
critical resources; the pilots must be willing to make similar
commitments.

~ted/2NO

On Aug 12, 7:30*pm, Marc Ramsey
wrote:
From another perspective, out here in Region 11, we often end up running
regional contests with as few as 7 or 8 pilots. *What kind of organizer
cancels the event less than a week before, as a result of dropping from 20
to 15 entrants? *I'd certainly think twice before planning to attend an
event put on by organizers who give up that easily...

Marc


Marc,

Awfully harsh response. Yes you may run contest with that number if
you are planning for it, but with last minutes drop outs it can hurt
financially.

Most sites have to bring in tow planes and pilots which means ferry
costs and hotels.

There are dinner reservations with minimums, helping cover your staff
expenses, etc, etc, etc.

Unless you are willing to make up the difference out of your pocket
what do you do?

I think we need higher deposits and longer lead time for when you can
withdraw.

Hi,

I agree with Tim. I have run several contests and was personally
financially affected by the HUGE number of last minute drop outs - and the
several pilots that showed up without pre-registering. The same was true
for regional contests and national contests. I found it extremely
inconsiderate to see many pilots register and then backed-out a few weeks or
days or minutes before the start of the contest. Several never officially
backed-out - they just didn't show up. It made it nearly impossible to
pre-plan towplanes, dinner events, airport tie-down areas, etc. I won't run
a contest again until the SSA changes the deposit fees, etc. I found that
it nearly impossible to break even financially if the contest has less than
30 contestants. If you plan for that number and get only 20, you will
disappoint all the towplane owners and the contest organizers lose a lot of
money. I don't know how you can break even running a contest for 7 or 8
competitors - not with the fee structure the SSA imposes on contest
organizers.

Paul Remde

"Tim Taylor" wrote in message
...
On Aug 12, 7:30 pm, Marc Ramsey
wrote:
From another perspective, out here in Region 11, we often end up running
regional contests with as few as 7 or 8 pilots. What kind of organizer
cancels the event less than a week before, as a result of dropping from 20
to 15 entrants? I'd certainly think twice before planning to attend an
event put on by organizers who give up that easily...

Marc


Marc,

Awfully harsh response. Yes you may run contest with that number if
you are planning for it, but with last minutes drop outs it can hurt
financially.

Most sites have to bring in tow planes and pilots which means ferry
costs and hotels.

There are dinner reservations with minimums, helping cover your staff
expenses, etc, etc, etc.

Unless you are willing to make up the difference out of your pocket
what do you do?

I think we need higher deposits and longer lead time for when you can
withdraw.

Yeah.. sounds like the answer may be full contest fee payments and a
higher late entry surcharge.


Marc,

Awfully harsh response. *Yes you may run contest with that number if
you are planning for it, but with last minutes drop outs it can hurt
financially.

Most sites have to bring in tow planes and pilots which means ferry
costs and hotels.

There are dinner reservations with minimums, helping cover your staff
expenses, etc, etc, etc.

Unless you are willing to make up the difference out of your pocket
what do you do?

I think we need higher deposits and longer lead time for when you can
withdraw.

On Aug 13, 7:59*am, wrote:
Yeah.. sounds like the answer may be full contest fee payments and a
higher late entry surcharge.



Marc,

Awfully harsh response. *Yes you may run contest with that number if
you are planning for it, but with last minutes drop outs it can hurt
financially.

Most sites have to bring in tow planes and pilots which means ferry
costs and hotels.

There are dinner reservations with minimums, helping cover your staff
expenses, etc, etc, etc.

Unless you are willing to make up the difference out of your pocket
what do you do?

I think we need higher deposits and longer lead time for when you can
withdraw.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Rules area 5.4 addresses this
Max deposit was raised from $100 to $150 this year. Late surcharge may
be imposed of up to $50.
Deposits are refundable within 30 days of the start at organizers
descretion.
The other dilemna is that if deposits are super high, folks may not
want to put $ at risk so wait longer to enter.
There are no easy answers on this.
There are also some pretty regular "weasels" that put entries in and
then look at the weather and cancel. I know of a couple that can be
relied on as 80% likely to not show. Pretty rude.
Then there is the guy that entered 2 contests for the same week- A
true weasel. If I were the organizer on that, this pilot would
definitely be permitted to have his entry deposit put toward the
contest shortfall.
Knowing the folks running R3, they are not likely to be as harsh as
I'm inclined to be. They took this decision very seriously, but due to
some internal pressure in the club, can't run the contest at a loss.
It's too bad because they always run a great contest and I know they
will again in the future.
Crabby because I'll be working instead of racing with my grandson.
UH

I'm sorry that this happened and that a lot of work was for naught.
But maybe some good can come from it, by making it clear to newbies
that minimum turnout is required at contests. The contest invitations
I've seen have emphasized the maximum number of entrants, but I don't
recall seeing that a minimum number was required.

I have no suggestions on what to do about no shows. Emergencies do
happen, but I can't believe emergencies happened to 25% to 40% of the
people who sign up. Sounds like selfishness and rudeness to me.

-John

As a pilot who has never flown a contest, I think the entry fees are high
enough. Typically by the time you pay for entry fees and tows its
something like 600 bucks right? That's what I recall paying when I
registered for the Region 7 contest that Paul Remde organized a few years
back. I had to withdraw when I wasn't able to finish my Silver Badge in
time. I really struggled coming up with that money at the time just to
register. That 600ish dollars would pretty much pay for a seasons worth
of tows at home.

I can understand the financial problem faced with dropouts. The only
solution in my mind would be to make the entry fees non-refundable. That
would help the organizers have more of a sure thing. Course there would
be a few pilots who might not fly because they would be on the fence and
not want to risk the money. Allowing late entry with no penalty might
help with that, but im not sure what sort of pain that creates for contest
management.

I've really been enjoying watching the SPOT tracks of the Region 9 and 10
contests and have been following the daily results with much more interest
than I ever have for any contest. It might help that I recognize a few
names on the list. Maybe next year if I still have a job I can line up
the vacation time and afford the entry fee to fly Sports Class.




-Tony Condon
Cherokee II N373Y

The underlying issue is participation. If 50 people were signed up to
come, losing 10 at the last moment wouldn't be such a big deal. And 50
makes for a much more profitable contest, and a better use of CD,
scorer, and other volunteer time.

I don't have easy answers. Raising fees and more nonrefundable
deposits sounds like a way to get to 6 person contests where everybody
shows up, not very appetizing. How to make contests more appetizing,
so that everyone in the region wants to be there, is the big question

John Cochrane BB