New Transponder Comparison Table

As a very uneducated pilot,following Paul Remdes suggestions, I was
considering buying a Transponder mode S but then various people said local
airports didnt have mode S yet so it woulld be a waste of time for some
time to come..is this true?
If I buy mode S can it be accessed/ used by the current systems?
Some easy to understand stuff would be most welcome!
Regards from UK


At 16:36 12 September 2009, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Sep 12, 9:12=A0am, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Sep 12, 6:49=A0am, "Paul Remde" wrote:



Hi,

That is an interesting point. =A0I wonder if Trig will update the
manua=
l with
changes to the maximum altitude when the first batch of units
destined
=
for
the US (after receiving US approvals) ships.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

"jcarlyle" wrote in message


..=
..

Don't know European rules, but the Trig TT21 installation manual
says
in Table 3.1 that the altitude is 35,000 feet.

-John

On Sep 12, 8:08 am, cernauta wrote:
The factory
brochurehttp://www.trig-avionics.com/library/tt21brochur=
e.pdf
indicates that this Class 2 Transponder complies with the
European
rules for "flying below 15.000 ft". Was it certified for flying
up
t=
o
35.000 ft in the US? Lucky guys...

Unless I am missing something the TT21 is a "Class 2 Level 2"
transponder. The Class 2 part that means it is technically limited to
15,000' and VFR. With 130W nominal (**at the connector**) these
transponders are clearly not intended to meet the 125W ERP (Effective
Radiated Power) requirement requirement for Class 1 (above 15,000'
use).

It is anybody's guess what the "Altitude 35,000'" in the spec
tables
in the documentation is supposed to mean. It is an sloppily written
spec, either way is it "Maximum Altitude?" Maximum for what? It
could
be the maximum operating altitude of the electronics, ignoring the
transponder is technically not certified for use above 15,000'. It
could be the maximum range of the altitude encoder. It is anybody's
guess what it means.

This certified altitude Class 1 vs. Class 2 issue has been discussed
here before, it is =A0something that should not be driving decisions
IMNSHO. The important thing is to install and use a transponder in
areas of high traffic/mixed jet traffic (like around Reno) and the
Trigg TT21 looks an excellent choice.

Darryl

Oops I should have said 125 W peak power not ERP.

Darryl

If you are thinking of buying a transponder, Paul, you should buy a mode S
transponder. You are correct that a lot of the ATC units you may contact
will not be Mode S equipped, but they will still recieve the mode A and
mode C (4 digit assigned code and altitude). Buying a non-mode S
transponder would be a waste of money, as you will need it to enter
certain areas and types of airspace in the UK. A transponder mandatory
zone means a mode S transponder mandatory zone.

At 19:15 12 September 2009, Andy Melville wrote:
As a very uneducated pilot,following Paul Remdes suggestions, I was
considering buying a Transponder mode S but then various people said
local
airports didnt have mode S yet so it woulld be a waste of time for some
time to come..is this true?
If I buy mode S can it be accessed/ used by the current systems?
Some easy to understand stuff would be most welcome!
Regards from UK

In message , Mark Dickson
writes
If you are thinking of buying a transponder, Paul, you should buy a mode S
transponder. You are correct that a lot of the ATC units you may contact
will not be Mode S equipped, but they will still recieve the mode A and
mode C (4 digit assigned code and altitude). Buying a non-mode S
transponder would be a waste of money, as you will need it to enter
certain areas and types of airspace in the UK. A transponder mandatory
zone means a mode S transponder mandatory zone.

Suspect (but am not sure) that all new transponder installations in the
UK must be mode S.



At 19:15 12 September 2009, Andy Melville wrote:
As a very uneducated pilot,following Paul Remdes suggestions, I was
considering buying a Transponder mode S but then various people said
local
airports didnt have mode S yet so it woulld be a waste of time for some
time to come..is this true?
If I buy mode S can it be accessed/ used by the current systems?
Some easy to understand stuff would be most welcome!
Regards from UK


--
Surfer!
Email to: ramwater at uk2 dot net

“ . . . in the UK. A transponder mandatory zone means a mode S
transponder mandatory zone. “

Wrong, at least for the new Stansted TMZ’s:

“ . . . access is permitted to any aircraft which is operating a fully
functioning pressure altitude reporting transponder in accordance with
the CAA’s TMZ Policy Statement or to those aircraft which the aircraft
commander has obtained permission from the air traffic control unit at
Stansted Airport, Farnborough Radar, or Essex Radar, as may be
appropriate, to enter the restricted airspace.”

So it needs Mode C, not necessarily Mode S, thought the latter also
incorporates mode C.

However, for new installations, I believe that Surfer is right – new
installations have to mode S.

If not so, no doubt somebody else will be along soon, To clarify.

Chris N.

By the way, any UK glider operator proposing to fit a transponder has
to pay attention to EASA requirements, in many cases. As I have
recently written elsewhe

Most UK gliders are now regulated under EASA, and all modifications
for those must have EASA approval. I am told that instrument panel, or
wiring, or extra battery provision, are all modifications requiring
approved schemes. I understand that BGA is negotiating with CAA to try
to simplify and make practical obtaining such approval, more like how
we used to be able to make technical and safety improvements, with BGA
Technical Committee approval, before EASA and CAA regulated gliders;
but I won’t believe it is possible, seeing how Europe works these
days, until it is done. As far as I know, few if any EASA
modifications to fit transponders, including details of wiring and
battery changes, have been officially approved. A transponder on a
long glider flight is likely to need at least one extra 7 amp hour
battery, maybe more. I have specifically been told that to fit to my
Lak 17A a Trig 2-unit transponder (the only one I am sure will fit),
and an additional battery, needs all that installation to be approved.
The Lak factory has EASA approval to a modification which specifies
antenna, 3 specific models of transponder which do not include the
Trig, and as far as I can see does not provide for any additional
battery nor the wiring changes to feed the remote amplifier unit and a
lead from there to the small control unit in the instrument panel.
EASA thus prevents me from having a transponder. I have no design
authority, nor skills or facilities, to research it, build a prototype
installation, and then conduct whatever ground and flight tests are
required etc., to submit a properly engineered modification scheme for
EASA approval.

[To run Flarm, I use a separate battery, and it is all personal carry-
on equipment. PCAS is self contained, or can use a lead from the same
carry-on battery, so I regard it all as personal equipment. I have, of
course, ensured that it all safely stowed. PCAS and Flarm rest on
Velcro-type strips in top of my instrument panel coaming. Carry-on
transponders do not exist.]

Chris N.

As of 2012 it will be mode S, so not much point in buying anything else.

At 21:06 12 September 2009, Chris Nicholas wrote:

=93 . . . in the UK. A transponder mandatory zone means a mode S
transponder mandatory zone. =93

Wrong, at least for the new Stansted TMZ=92s:

=93 . . . access is permitted to any aircraft which is operating a fully
functioning pressure altitude reporting transponder in accordance with
the CAA=92s TMZ Policy Statement or to those aircraft which the aircraft
commander has obtained permission from the air traffic control unit at
Stansted Airport, Farnborough Radar, or Essex Radar, as may be
appropriate, to enter the restricted airspace.=94

So it needs Mode C, not necessarily Mode S, thought the latter also
incorporates mode C.

However, for new installations, I believe that Surfer is right =96 new
installations have to mode S.

If not so, no doubt somebody else will be along soon, To clarify.

Chris N.

On Sep 12, 2:45*pm, Mark Dickson wrote:
As of 2012 it will be mode S, so not much point in buying anything else.

At 21:06 12 September 2009, Chris Nicholas wrote:



=93 . . . in the UK. *A transponder mandatory zone means a mode S
transponder mandatory zone. =93

Wrong, at least for the new Stansted TMZ=92s:

=93 . . . access is permitted to any aircraft which is operating a fully
functioning pressure altitude reporting transponder in accordance with
the CAA=92s TMZ Policy Statement or to those aircraft which the aircraft
commander has obtained permission from the air traffic control unit at
Stansted Airport, Farnborough Radar, or Essex Radar, as may be
appropriate, to enter the restricted airspace.=94

So it needs Mode C, not necessarily Mode S, thought the latter also
incorporates mode C.

However, for new installations, I believe that Surfer is right =96 new
installations have to mode S.

If not so, no doubt somebody else will be along soon, To clarify.

Chris N.

And for USA readers we have much longer to worry about Mode-S type
things, so normally I would have said just install a Mode-C, save some
money and in a decade replace it with Mode-S or whatever. However the
Trig TT-21 is a game changer. You get Mode S/1090ES ADS-B out
capabilities for future possible use and more immediately, it is more
compact, easier to install and uses less power than other options.

So for those folks flying in those high density/fast jet traffic areas
like near Reno, there is even less excuses not to be using a
transponder.

It will be interesting to see how Becker and others respond. Becker's
new more compact VHF radio looks really nice.

Darryl

U¿ytkownik Darryl Ramm napisa³:

However the
Trig TT-21 is a game changer. You get Mode S/1090ES ADS-B out
capabilities for future possible use and more immediately, it is more
compact, easier to install and uses less power than other options.
Could you confirm that Trig will not work in A/C-only radar environment?

--
Wojtu¶.net