towing a sailplane trailer / vehicle

Ryan,

I tow my glider with a 2005 Subaru Forester with the 2.5 liter four
cylinder, non-turbocharged gasoline engine, with 4 speed automatic
transmission.

Before I found the car, I first towed my trailer with a friend's car,
fully loaded with glider, tail dolly, tow-out gear, wash bucket, wing
stand, folding chair, etc, to a truck stop and weighed the trailer on
the scales. Result: 2,040 lbs! A LOT heavier than I had
anticipated. Tongue weight is 180 lbs. That, too is a lot more than
anticipated. But once I knew the weight of the trailer, I knew what I
had to look for in a tow vehicle. Oh, by the way, the "tow vehicle"
was going to be my every day driver, too. So, it had to be affordable
to purchase and to drive. And the Subaru fit the bill.

The Forester is rated to tow 2,400 lbs (in America. Seems to be
different in different countries. Lawyers at work?) if the trailer
has brakes. Only 1,000 lbs if the trailer doesn't have brakes. My
trailer, a Swan, has brakes. Max tongue weight is 200 lbs.

While my trailer weighs less than the maximum allowable tow weight, I
did have an automatic transmission oil cooler installed. Necessary?
I don't know. But I had it installed anyway. Subaru doesn't offer an
auxillary transmission cooler (the stock setup routes transmission oil
to a section of the radiator for cooling), so I had an independant
transmission shop install it for me.

Here on the east coast of USA, the Subaru tows the trailer just fine.
I have towed it up the steep climbs on I-77 through North Carolina,
Virginia and West Virginia without problems. On those climbs, I
pulled the transmission down to third gear and continued on at about
50 mph. I've pulled it up to New Castle, VA without any problems.
Now, one caveat is that on all these trips, the outside temperature
was cool. I've never had the opportunity to tow it up through the
mountains on a hot day. There is a transmission temperature "idiot
light" that is supposed to come on when the transmission gets hot.
I've never seen it come on. Not really sure if that means the tranny
is toast once it comes on, or just saying to pull over and let it cool
down before preceeding on...

Gas mileage towing varies from 20 - 22 mpg. Without the trailer, on
the highway, it gets about 26 mpg. As an everyday driver, it does
just fine. No, it's not as refined as my previous Honda Accord. It's
noiser in the cabin, less room, somewhat "cheaper" looking than either
the Accord or my wife's Hyundai Sonata. But here's the main point:
It is rated to tow my trailer. Nothing else matters.

Since it has the non-turbo engine, it burns regular ocatane gasoline.
Go with the turbo option, and you have to use premium gasoline. Your
fun factor goes up, but so does the gas bill.

The new Outbacks can be bought, in America, with a new 3.5 liter six
cylinder engine and it uses regular octane gasoline. I think in the
previous six, you had to use premium. If you get the four cylinder, I
think you get a continuously variable transmission, and I don't know
how that would work out for towing.

In Europe, the Forester is available with a four cylinder turbo-
diesel. Too bad we don't have that available in America. Not yet,
anyway.

So, I can recommend a Subaru for towing your trailer.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

As a Brit, I just love these US discussions about the impossibilty of
towing glider trailers with anything that doesn't weigh at least 3
tons, with a huge gas guzzling V8 engine. Due to our Government's
dependence on fuel duties, which are extortionate, most of us own
quite modest sized cars, but we still tow glider trailers around. A
1.6 litre vehicle will tow a single seater glider trailer perfectly
well and 2.0 litres for a two seater trailer. It is probably best to
keep the speed below 60 mph though (legal speed limit for trailers
anyway in the UK) . Automatic gearboxes may need an oil cooler fitted.

Derek Copeland


On Oct 30, 12:33*pm, rlovinggood wrote:
Ryan,

I tow my glider with a 2005 Subaru Forester with the 2.5 liter four
cylinder, non-turbocharged gasoline engine, with 4 speed automatic
transmission.

Before I found the car, I first towed my trailer with a friend's car,
fully loaded with glider, tail dolly, tow-out gear, wash bucket, wing
stand, folding chair, etc, to a truck stop and weighed the trailer on
the scales. *Result: *2,040 lbs! *A LOT heavier than I had
anticipated. *Tongue weight is 180 lbs. *That, too is a lot more than
anticipated. *But once I knew the weight of the trailer, I knew what I
had to look for in a tow vehicle. *Oh, by the way, the "tow vehicle"
was going to be my every day driver, too. *So, it had to be affordable
to purchase and to drive. *And the Subaru fit the bill.

The Forester is rated to tow 2,400 lbs (in America. *Seems to be
different in different countries. *Lawyers at work?) if the trailer
has brakes. *Only 1,000 lbs if the trailer doesn't have brakes. *My
trailer, a Swan, has brakes. *Max tongue weight is 200 lbs.

While my trailer weighs less than the maximum allowable tow weight, I
did have an automatic transmission oil cooler installed. *Necessary?
I don't know. *But I had it installed anyway. *Subaru doesn't offer an
auxillary transmission cooler (the stock setup routes transmission oil
to a section of the radiator for cooling), so I had an independant
transmission shop install it for me.

Here on the east coast of USA, the Subaru tows the trailer just fine.
I have towed it up the steep climbs on I-77 through North Carolina,
Virginia and West Virginia without problems. *On those climbs, I
pulled the transmission down to third gear and continued on at about
50 mph. *I've pulled it up to New Castle, VA without any problems.
Now, one caveat is that on all these trips, the outside temperature
was cool. *I've never had the opportunity to tow it up through the
mountains on a hot day. *There is a transmission temperature "idiot
light" that is supposed to come on when the transmission gets hot.
I've never seen it come on. *Not really sure if that means the tranny
is toast once it comes on, or just saying to pull over and let it cool
down before preceeding on...

Gas mileage towing varies from 20 - 22 mpg. *Without the trailer, on
the highway, it gets about 26 mpg. *As an everyday driver, it does
just fine. *No, it's not as refined as my previous Honda Accord. *It's
noiser in the cabin, less room, somewhat "cheaper" looking than either
the Accord or my wife's Hyundai Sonata. *But here's the main point:
It is rated to tow my trailer. *Nothing else matters.

Since it has the non-turbo engine, it burns regular ocatane gasoline.
Go with the turbo option, and you have to use premium gasoline. *Your
fun factor goes up, but so does the gas bill.

The new Outbacks can be bought, in America, with a new 3.5 liter six
cylinder engine and it uses regular octane gasoline. *I think in the
previous six, you had to use premium. *If you get the four cylinder, I
think you get a continuously variable transmission, and I don't know
how that would work out for towing.

In Europe, the Forester is available with a four cylinder turbo-
diesel. *Too bad we don't have that available in America. *Not yet,
anyway.

So, I can recommend a Subaru for towing your trailer.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

So how much bearing do I need to put on the tow rating of a vehicle? I
would like a new Ford Ranger with the 2.3L 4 cyl and a manual
transmission. The tow rating for that vehicle is only 1,540 lbs.

On Oct 30, 10:18*am, Nick S wrote:
So how much bearing do I need to put on the tow rating of a vehicle? I
would like a new Ford Ranger with the 2.3L 4 cyl and a manual
transmission. The tow rating for that vehicle is only 1,540 lbs.

Nick, in my case, I had to put a good bit of bearing on the tow rating
of the vehicle. My old homebuilt trailer was very light. Now, that,
and the fact that it towed easily, were the ONLY things good about
it. My old 1988 Honda Accord 2.0 liter 5-speed manual towed it quite
easily. When I got an Accord V-6 with automatic transmission, it
towed it even better.

Then, I got a new trailer. Boy is it nice, but boy is it heavy, as
compared to the old home-built trailer. Unknown to me at the time, it
was too heavy for the Accord. The tow rating for the Accord was 1,000
lbs with a 100 lb max tongue weight. Turns out that 180 lb tongue
weight of the new trailer came very close to ripping the hitch off of
the bottom of the Accord's trunk. There was really not much steel in
the Honda to bolt a hitch to, and the strain imposed by the trailer
was ripping the bottom of the trunk away from the car. Thus the need
to find a different tow vehicle. And thus, my reason for first
weighing the loaded trailer, then secondly looking for a tow vehicle.
Now after a few thousand miles of towing the trailer with the Subaru,
there haven't been any problems.

Of course, Your Mileage May Vary...

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

rlovinggood wrote:
lbs with a 100 lb max tongue weight. Turns out that 180 lb tongue
weight of the new trailer came very close to ripping the hitch off of

This is ridiculous. There's no reason to have a tongue weight of more
than about 30 to 40 pounds. That you bought a new car rather than
rebalancing the trailer is even more ridiculous.

If Europeans want a faster plane, they refine the aerodynamics. If
Americans want a faster plane, they mount a bigger engine.

On Oct 30, 8:06*am, John Smith wrote:
rlovinggood wrote:
lbs with a 100 lb max tongue weight. *Turns out that 180 lb tongue
weight of the new trailer came very close to ripping the hitch off of

This is ridiculous. There's no reason to have a tongue weight of more
than about 30 to 40 pounds. That you bought a new car rather than
rebalancing the trailer is even more ridiculous.

If Europeans want a faster plane, they refine the aerodynamics. If
Americans want a faster plane, they mount a bigger engine.

Yes there is. Recommended tongue weight is 10% of trailer weight. My
Komet trailer is almost exactly that. Our club Komet with the LS-4 in
it has, as you stated, about 30-50 pounds tongue weight. My trailer
is stable to well over 75 mph. The LS-4 trailer can get very ugly
around/above 65. Of course, it's not a problem if you're willing to
keep the speed down.

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:18:19 -0700, Uncle Fuzzy wrote:

Yes there is. Recommended tongue weight is 10% of trailer weight.

Is this a general recommendation for any type of trailer, or is it meant
for caravans?

The reason I'm asking is that caravans have a lot of frontal area mounted
high up and a short wheel-hitch distance, while a glider trailer has a
smaller frontal area, often mostly hidden behind the tow vehicle and at
least twice the wheel-hitch distance. Pull the caravan at highway speeds
and you'll have a significant reduction in load on the hitch, while the
glider trailer's load reduction will be very much smaller, especially if
the tow vehicle is an estate or station wagon of some sort.

Data point: I tow a Libelle in a small cross section home-built box
trailer using a 2.0 litre automatic Focus estate. The hitch load from
this trailer is low - its easy to support the front of the trailer with
one hand while hoicking up the dolly wheel with the other so the hitch
can be dropped onto the ball. I haven't measured it, but I'd be surprised
of the hitch load is more than 20-25 lbs, yet this trailer tows
beautifully up to 70 mph. There's no sway, even when passing trailer
trucks in a cross wind. Fuel consumption is normally 34-35 mpg thanks to
the slush pump and drops to 29-30 with the trailer. One reason for
choosing an estate was that the rear springs are much stiffer then those
on a Focus car.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Uncle Fuzzy wrote:
Yes there is. Recommended tongue weight is 10% of trailer weight.

For trailers up to 3.5 tons, the German law asks for 4% of the trailer
weight or 25kg, whichever is lower. Not surprisingly, the trailer
manufactorer I asked said something similiar.

I had no problems towing the club trailer with the LS-4 in it at up to
"almost 90" in passing mode.
Towing with 07 Toyota Tundra 2W Drive, 5.7L V8 Auto

"Uncle Fuzzy" wrote in message
...
On Oct 30, 8:06 am, John Smith wrote:
rlovinggood wrote:
lbs with a 100 lb max tongue weight. Turns out that 180 lb tongue
weight of the new trailer came very close to ripping the hitch off of

This is ridiculous. There's no reason to have a tongue weight of more
than about 30 to 40 pounds. That you bought a new car rather than
rebalancing the trailer is even more ridiculous.

If Europeans want a faster plane, they refine the aerodynamics. If
Americans want a faster plane, they mount a bigger engine.

Yes there is. Recommended tongue weight is 10% of trailer weight. My
Komet trailer is almost exactly that. Our club Komet with the LS-4 in
it has, as you stated, about 30-50 pounds tongue weight. My trailer
is stable to well over 75 mph. The LS-4 trailer can get very ugly
around/above 65. Of course, it's not a problem if you're willing to
keep the speed down.

John,

As someone said, "Power corrupts. Absolute power is a pretty neat
thing." Or something like that. So a bigger engine would be alright
by me! :-)

Not sure how I could shift enough of the contents in the trailer to
get the tongue weight down to the featherweights you mention. It
would be a job of shifting the axle. Yea, with money, anything is
possible. I have seen a trailer, maybe it was an Anshau Komet, that
had several available mounting points for the axle, which in theory
should make shifting the axle around a bit less complicated. My Swan
has no such arrangement and any axle shifting would be all of my
problem.

While the V-6 Honda Accord was a great car, but a poor tow car for my
particular trailer, it was probably time to trade it in anyway. It
had almost 210,000 miles on it. Not nearly as many as my old '88
Accord with 396,000 miles on it when an errant driver going the
opposite direction decided to turn in front of me. That idiot's move
totalled out the old blue Honda. And I'm still ****ed seven years
after the wreck!

Oh, and not only is the Subaru rated to tow the trailer, it has all
wheel drive, in case I need help getting out of a cow pasture, and a
bit more ground clearance than the Accord, again better suited for
driving over rather than through the cow pies.


Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA


On Oct 30, 11:06*am, John Smith wrote:
rlovinggood wrote:
lbs with a 100 lb max tongue weight. *Turns out that 180 lb tongue
weight of the new trailer came very close to ripping the hitch off of

This is ridiculous. There's no reason to have a tongue weight of more
than about 30 to 40 pounds. That you bought a new car rather than
rebalancing the trailer is even more ridiculous.

If Europeans want a faster plane, they refine the aerodynamics. If
Americans want a faster plane, they mount a bigger engine.