Glaze Ice

In article ,
says...

METAR EBOS 021550Z 22009KT 8000 FEW020 SCT032 01/M01 Q1017 R08/290095
TEMPO 3000 -SHSNRA BKN012=

OK sure - but one should surely reading something more into that temp
and dew point. Too close for me. What do others think?




SHSNRA

Showers Snow Rain.

In our club are now two camps: 1 person, convinced that dry snow will
not cause freezing ice and all the rest who don't know the differance by
sight between a cloud full of dry snow or freezing rain and who will
chicken out by not flying through.

I am with the rest ;-)

Where is the summer staying?

Tom De Moor

On Feb 2, 7:38*am, Tom De Moor
wrote:
In article ,
says...



METAR EBOS 021550Z 22009KT 8000 FEW020 SCT032 01/M01 Q1017 R08/290095
TEMPO 3000 -SHSNRA BKN012=

OK sure - but one should surely reading something more into that temp
and dew point. *Too close for me. *What do others think?

SHSNRA

Showers Snow Rain.

In our club are now two camps: 1 person, convinced that dry snow will
not cause freezing ice and all the rest who don't know the differance by
sight between a cloud full of dry snow or freezing rain and who will
chicken out by not flying through.

I am with the rest ;-)

Where is the summer staying?

Tom De Moor

With nearly a lifetime of flying real IFR in light aircraft, I've
found almost all generalities about ice accumulating on aircraft to be
wrong on occasion. Ultimately, you get what you get. If you have a
well thought out escape route, you'll probably survive. If not.....

Examples:

Ice CAN accumulate in clear air. It's usually Graupel but can be just
very light supercooled mist. Neither block visibility enough to be
easily seen from a distance.

The kind of freezing rain described by the first poster is rare but
almost always fatal to an aircraft. As a result there are few 1st
person stories of encounters with freezing rain.

The only real ice removal strategy for aircraft is to find warm air -
FAST. De-Ice equipment just buys a little time. Simply recording
temperature layers while climbing has saved me several times.

Usually, but not always, if the air temperature is -10C or lower,
virtually all supercooled water droplets have already frozen out and
the resulting snow will just bounce off the airplane. I've seen
significant ice at -30C.

Icing is always worse over mountains.

It's amazing how much ice you can pick up flying through a cooling
tower plume.

In article 138c6dc9-ee47-45c4-8033-6e8906aae222
@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com, says...

With nearly a lifetime of flying real IFR in light aircraft, I've
found almost all generalities about ice accumulating on aircraft to be
wrong on occasion. Ultimately, you get what you get. If you have a
well thought out escape route, you'll probably survive. If not.....



I am with you.

Concerning the accident of 02 jan (EBUL, OO-TRB) the PIC had 30 years of
VFR-experience but how much in marginal VFR, how much in icing
conditions? VFR-pilots - I am one- tend to be 'good weather'-pilots.

We get close to no prolonged icing conditions in our region, so
accidents happened when even carburrettor icing was not detected by the
pilot untill he smashed his (school)Cessna to the ground.

Not pointing a finger: it might happen to any privat pilot but the
person concerned will sure not feel good afterwards.

http://www.mobilit.fgov.be/data/aero...nts/AA-8-2.pdf

But sometimes it must be admitted that some errors or misconceptions are
very very hard to understand. On top of that: this is the age of you
tube and other video sites...

http://airsafety.info/wp/?p=138

'What's that beeping? I get the plane down quickly...'

Tom De Moor

Ice CAN accumulate in clear air. *It's usually Graupel but can be just
very light supercooled mist. *Neither block visibility enough to be
easily seen from a distance.

The kind of freezing rain described by the first poster is rare but
almost always fatal to an aircraft. *As a result there are few 1st
person stories of encounters with freezing rain.

Let me relate an iceing story that happened to me. I was on a cross
country in my PA 140 across the cascades. The weather was clear, the
winds calm. The temp was well below freezing. As I let down on the
west side of the mountains I encountered scattered clouds with light
showers. The temp. was well above freezing. After landing at
Longview I pulled up to the fuel pump to top off the tanks for the
return flight. To my surprise the fuel tanks were covered in ice.
The fuel had retained the cold temps enough to freeze the light rain
showers contacting the tank area. I felt no loss of lift as the rest
of the wing was clear. I wondered what the outcome might have been
with a large leading edge tank.

Ed

Like me, You may have missed Rogallo's obit late last year.
He died near the first flight site in North Carolina.
How appropriate!
He gave his Rogallo patents to the Country at the time of Sputnik.

His design gave birth to hang-gliding, ultra lights, powered parachutes,
Light Sport Aircraft and a new birth of enthusiasm for flying (just) in
reach of the average person.

Francis Rogallo - 2009

Brian W

"brian whatcott" wrote in message
...
Like me, You may have missed Rogallo's obit late last year.
He died near the first flight site in North Carolina.
How appropriate!
He gave his Rogallo patents to the Country at the time of Sputnik.

His design gave birth to hang-gliding, ultra lights, powered parachutes,
Light Sport Aircraft and a new birth of enthusiasm for flying (just) in
reach of the average person.

Francis Rogallo - 2009

Brian W

Thank you for this posting, it motivated a search
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/05/us/05rogallo.html

more at
http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&source=h...64381002806979

Happy landings,

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

METAR EBOS 021550Z 22009KT 8000 FEW020 SCT032 01/M01 Q1017 R08/290095
TEMPO 3000 -SHSNRA BKN012=

OK sure - but one should surely reading something more into that temp
and dew point. Too close for me. What do others think?




SHSNRA

Showers Snow Rain.

Yeah, but it's broken at 1200'. So I wouldn't be flying in it (who
would?). I'm far more concerned about the possibility of fog and carb
icing due the dew-point and temp. If the WX deteriorated to IMC I'd be
on the ground already.

If the plane and pilots are IMC/IFR (and it was me), I wouldn't fly in
that - not in a 172 with no de-icing.


In our club are now two camps: 1 person, convinced that dry snow will
not cause freezing ice and all the rest who don't know the differance by
sight between a cloud full of dry snow or freezing rain and who will
chicken out by not flying through.

I am with the rest ;-)

I on your side on that.

Where is the summer staying?

Pretty nice in NZ at the mo, 20C here at present.

--
Duncan.