First emergency

I've read all the replies.. and agree with most everything that was said.
My first thought would have been to over fly the airport of intended landing
at a slightly higher altitude, started the traffic pattern and then execute
the spiral down 180 and land maneuver, just incase the engine did quit
before you really wanted it to with reduction of the mixture.

B

"EventHorizon" wrote in message
. 12.10...
I thought you might all find this story interesting.

Me, I'm 53 and have been flying since 1988 with about 1000 hrs. My
partner is a CFI and we've been in a Cherokee 140 partnership for about
12 years. We have a 1974 Cherokee Cruiser, which we normally keep well
maintained (!).

About a week ago my partner and I decided to fly after work. We are
still breaking in a new cylinder so we thought we'd fly local here in
Southern California. I flew left seat and we took off from Camarillo and
flew around Malibu, then I flew over to Santa Paula for a landing. We
had agreed we wanted to fly about 1.5 hrs, so as I was landing at Santa
Paula I was at about 45 minutes. After I landed I asked my partner if he
wanted to switch sides, but he said no, he'd fly from the right side.

We taxied back and he took off. At about 1500'agl he tapped me on the
shoulder (I was looking outside for traffic). He said "we have a
problem". There had been no apparent change in the flight so I thought
he might be joking. He pointed down at the throttle and he was moving it
full to idle and back, but it had no effect! We were still at full
throttle and obviously we had a broken cable or something similar.

So your mind goes rapidly over the situation. How bad is this? What are
the challenges? What are the options? We had a brief discussion and I
mentioned that although this didn't seem real bad, we had some risks and
I had read so many stories of pilots being reluctant to declare an
emergency. We were only about 5 miles from Camarillo, our home airport
which has a 5000' runway. We discussed and within about 20 seconds
agreed that I would fly the plane since I was left seat, he would handle
radio, and we would declare and emergency since we did not have throttle
control. We had decided that I would try to modulate power with the
mixture, but if necessary I could fly over the the airport and then just
kill the engine and we would glide down.

The weather was very clear and it was just about dusk. My partner called
Camarillo tower, reported our position (about 5 miles out) and indicated
we had a throttle problem and we needed to declare and emergency. The
tower immediately cleared us to land on runway 8 and cleared out one
other plane in the pattern. The runway in use was 26 but it was calm and
rwy 8 was the closer approach. I was at about 1700' and full power; I
leveled off and flew at about yellow line toward the airport. As I got
closer I started a dive to lose altitude and flew fast; I had not yet
adjusted the mixture.

I realized that I was going to be quite high - I was on a 1 mile base so
I began to pull the mixture back and the engine roughened as it slowed
down some more. Still flying fast, I descended. I realized I was still
pretty high so I overshot the centerline a bit before turning to about a
.5 mile final to lose some more altitude. I leaned the mixture more
aggressively and the engine ran really rough with some backfiring.

As we came in a bit high on final and I knew the runway was assured I
asked my partner for flaps. I leaned more aggressively and the engine
was really choking now. As we came over the threshold a bit high I told
my partner I was going to kill the engine. I didn't want to be trying to
modulate a full throttle enging with mixture once I was on the runway.

About 20 feet or so I pulled to idle cutoff and it was weird to see a
prop stopped as I flared for a nice landing. I rolled out and used
residual speed to pull off on a turnoff and coast to a stop.

Airport security showed up and the guy didn't quite know what to do. We
told him we just needed a tow into our tiedown spot. He took our names
and certificate numbers and a brief statement of what had happened.

In discussion with my partner, we felt we did almost everything
correctly. We did not panic, we did not hesitate to declare the
emergency, we quickly agreed on roles and everything went smoothly. We
never really felt scared about the situation (a power failure might have
felt different!). When the situation first presented itself I thought
about flying to over the airport and cutting power, but I felt it would
be better not to have a guaranteed engine failure. We both felt this was
the less-risky way to handle the situation. We sort of stood there
saying to ourselves "we can't believe we just had an emergency!". It was
the first one for both of us in more than 20 years of flying each.

The plane is in the shop to get its cable replaced, apparently it broke
somewhere between the throttle quadrant and the carburetor, not at
either end.

Event Horizon

congrats to a safe landing!

back when i owned a cherokee 140, i planned for such an event
by considering what i would do under similar circumstances. my plan
was to either (1) intermittently shut the fuel off, at the fuel
selector
or (2) intermittently pull the mixture to full cutoff, and cycle as
needed.
if the prop did stop at glide speed, i could just key start the
engine.
you are lucky to still have had power available; i've heard of
circumstances where the throttle "wire" became disconnected from
the carb butterfly arm (due to a loose screw) and the power went to
idle in flight. (at every annual, i would check to confirm this screw
was
tight!) i've never heard of a "spring" that would cause the throttle
arm
to open wide (on a cherokee 140, am not sure about the 140 "cruiser").
i've also heard of the throttle knob and wire coming completely back
from the instrument panel into the cockpit, due to a loose carb screw.

my prior experience with a C172 i once owned, was that the prop would
not stop turning in flight, with the mixture pulled to full cutoff and
the
plane at glide speed (but this was with a 6 cylinder engine). in
fact,
i experimented (to learn my plane) and determined (with plenty of
altitude) that i could not get the prop to stop turning, even during
normal stalls (with the mixture at full cutoff); i had to pull the
bird up
into a hammerhead stall, to get the prop to stop turning (i was over
an uncontrolled airport at the time, for my safety). also, i
determined
that, with the prop stopped, i had to dive to an airspeed over 100 mph
indicated, to get the engine to start windmilling again (once the
airspeed
pushed the engine past that first cylinder's compression, the prop
rotated). (yes, i am aware of engine cooling situations such as
this.)

it appears, from your post, that the prop (on a 4 cylinder engine)
stopped
during flare, so the 4 jug engines apparently react differently to
airspeed
than do 6 cylinder engines.

DISCLAIMER: AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY ACTIONS YOU
TAKE TO EXPERIMENT WITH YOUR PLANE. YOU LEARN FROM
YOUR EXPERIMENTS, AT YOUR OWN RISK.

nucleus wrote:
congrats to a safe landing!

back when i owned a cherokee 140, my plan
was to ....intermittently pull the mixture to full cutoff...

Which reminds me of a dawn takoff and climbing through a thin layer,
noting the engine going to auto-rough, and pulling the carb heat all the
way.
But the engine fell quiet, so I pushed it in again.
So the engine went to auto-rough again, and I pulled the carb heat
AGAIN, with the same effect.

Then I looked at the knob - the mixture control - ##!!- after hundreds
of hours in that very plane too!

Never did THAT again.

Brian W

I would do the same exact thing you did and hope never have to do it. Nice
job keeping your cool and getting down safely.
Piperflyer.
"BT" wrote in message
...
I've read all the replies.. and agree with most everything that was said.
My first thought would have been to over fly the airport of intended
landing at a slightly higher altitude, started the traffic pattern and
then execute the spiral down 180 and land maneuver, just incase the engine
did quit before you really wanted it to with reduction of the mixture.

B

"EventHorizon" wrote in message
. 12.10...
I thought you might all find this story interesting.

Me, I'm 53 and have been flying since 1988 with about 1000 hrs. My
partner is a CFI and we've been in a Cherokee 140 partnership for about
12 years. We have a 1974 Cherokee Cruiser, which we normally keep well
maintained (!).

About a week ago my partner and I decided to fly after work. We are
still breaking in a new cylinder so we thought we'd fly local here in
Southern California. I flew left seat and we took off from Camarillo and
flew around Malibu, then I flew over to Santa Paula for a landing. We
had agreed we wanted to fly about 1.5 hrs, so as I was landing at Santa
Paula I was at about 45 minutes. After I landed I asked my partner if he
wanted to switch sides, but he said no, he'd fly from the right side.

We taxied back and he took off. At about 1500'agl he tapped me on the
shoulder (I was looking outside for traffic). He said "we have a
problem". There had been no apparent change in the flight so I thought
he might be joking. He pointed down at the throttle and he was moving it
full to idle and back, but it had no effect! We were still at full
throttle and obviously we had a broken cable or something similar.

So your mind goes rapidly over the situation. How bad is this? What are
the challenges? What are the options? We had a brief discussion and I
mentioned that although this didn't seem real bad, we had some risks and
I had read so many stories of pilots being reluctant to declare an
emergency. We were only about 5 miles from Camarillo, our home airport
which has a 5000' runway. We discussed and within about 20 seconds
agreed that I would fly the plane since I was left seat, he would handle
radio, and we would declare and emergency since we did not have throttle
control. We had decided that I would try to modulate power with the
mixture, but if necessary I could fly over the the airport and then just
kill the engine and we would glide down.

The weather was very clear and it was just about dusk. My partner called
Camarillo tower, reported our position (about 5 miles out) and indicated
we had a throttle problem and we needed to declare and emergency. The
tower immediately cleared us to land on runway 8 and cleared out one
other plane in the pattern. The runway in use was 26 but it was calm and
rwy 8 was the closer approach. I was at about 1700' and full power; I
leveled off and flew at about yellow line toward the airport. As I got
closer I started a dive to lose altitude and flew fast; I had not yet
adjusted the mixture.

I realized that I was going to be quite high - I was on a 1 mile base so
I began to pull the mixture back and the engine roughened as it slowed
down some more. Still flying fast, I descended. I realized I was still
pretty high so I overshot the centerline a bit before turning to about a
.5 mile final to lose some more altitude. I leaned the mixture more
aggressively and the engine ran really rough with some backfiring.

As we came in a bit high on final and I knew the runway was assured I
asked my partner for flaps. I leaned more aggressively and the engine
was really choking now. As we came over the threshold a bit high I told
my partner I was going to kill the engine. I didn't want to be trying to
modulate a full throttle enging with mixture once I was on the runway.

About 20 feet or so I pulled to idle cutoff and it was weird to see a
prop stopped as I flared for a nice landing. I rolled out and used
residual speed to pull off on a turnoff and coast to a stop.

Airport security showed up and the guy didn't quite know what to do. We
told him we just needed a tow into our tiedown spot. He took our names
and certificate numbers and a brief statement of what had happened.

In discussion with my partner, we felt we did almost everything
correctly. We did not panic, we did not hesitate to declare the
emergency, we quickly agreed on roles and everything went smoothly. We
never really felt scared about the situation (a power failure might have
felt different!). When the situation first presented itself I thought
about flying to over the airport and cutting power, but I felt it would
be better not to have a guaranteed engine failure. We both felt this was
the less-risky way to handle the situation. We sort of stood there
saying to ourselves "we can't believe we just had an emergency!". It was
the first one for both of us in more than 20 years of flying each.

The plane is in the shop to get its cable replaced, apparently it broke
somewhere between the throttle quadrant and the carburetor, not at
either end.

Event Horizon

In article m,
"PiperFlyer" wrote:

I would do the same exact thing you did and hope never have to do it. Nice
job keeping your cool and getting down safely.
Piperflyer.
"BT" wrote in message
...
I've read all the replies.. and agree with most everything that was said.
My first thought would have been to over fly the airport of intended
landing at a slightly higher altitude, started the traffic pattern and
then execute the spiral down 180 and land maneuver, just incase the engine
did quit before you really wanted it to with reduction of the mixture.

This is a classic case for the 360 overhead.

1. Fly down the runway heading
2. Break left over the numbers, using enough bank to shed excess speed
3. Pull mixture on downwind heading
4. Turn base at 30 deg from numbers
5. Assume best glide speed
6. Turn 1/4 mile final(high)
7. Adjust glide angle with flaps
8. Flare and land.

I would not modulate the power with the mixture, as that could damage
the engine through detonation or preignition. You already have the
runway made, so fly a normal power-off approach and landing.


"EventHorizon" wrote in message
. 12.10...
I thought you might all find this story interesting.

Me, I'm 53 and have been flying since 1988 with about 1000 hrs. My
partner is a CFI and we've been in a Cherokee 140 partnership for about
12 years. We have a 1974 Cherokee Cruiser, which we normally keep well
maintained (!).

About a week ago my partner and I decided to fly after work. We are
still breaking in a new cylinder so we thought we'd fly local here in
Southern California. I flew left seat and we took off from Camarillo and
flew around Malibu, then I flew over to Santa Paula for a landing. We
had agreed we wanted to fly about 1.5 hrs, so as I was landing at Santa
Paula I was at about 45 minutes. After I landed I asked my partner if he
wanted to switch sides, but he said no, he'd fly from the right side.

We taxied back and he took off. At about 1500'agl he tapped me on the
shoulder (I was looking outside for traffic). He said "we have a
problem". There had been no apparent change in the flight so I thought
he might be joking. He pointed down at the throttle and he was moving it
full to idle and back, but it had no effect! We were still at full
throttle and obviously we had a broken cable or something similar.

So your mind goes rapidly over the situation. How bad is this? What are
the challenges? What are the options? We had a brief discussion and I
mentioned that although this didn't seem real bad, we had some risks and
I had read so many stories of pilots being reluctant to declare an
emergency. We were only about 5 miles from Camarillo, our home airport
which has a 5000' runway. We discussed and within about 20 seconds
agreed that I would fly the plane since I was left seat, he would handle
radio, and we would declare and emergency since we did not have throttle
control. We had decided that I would try to modulate power with the
mixture, but if necessary I could fly over the the airport and then just
kill the engine and we would glide down.

The weather was very clear and it was just about dusk. My partner called
Camarillo tower, reported our position (about 5 miles out) and indicated
we had a throttle problem and we needed to declare and emergency. The
tower immediately cleared us to land on runway 8 and cleared out one
other plane in the pattern. The runway in use was 26 but it was calm and
rwy 8 was the closer approach. I was at about 1700' and full power; I
leveled off and flew at about yellow line toward the airport. As I got
closer I started a dive to lose altitude and flew fast; I had not yet
adjusted the mixture.

I realized that I was going to be quite high - I was on a 1 mile base so
I began to pull the mixture back and the engine roughened as it slowed
down some more. Still flying fast, I descended. I realized I was still
pretty high so I overshot the centerline a bit before turning to about a
.5 mile final to lose some more altitude. I leaned the mixture more
aggressively and the engine ran really rough with some backfiring.

As we came in a bit high on final and I knew the runway was assured I
asked my partner for flaps. I leaned more aggressively and the engine
was really choking now. As we came over the threshold a bit high I told
my partner I was going to kill the engine. I didn't want to be trying to
modulate a full throttle enging with mixture once I was on the runway.

About 20 feet or so I pulled to idle cutoff and it was weird to see a
prop stopped as I flared for a nice landing. I rolled out and used
residual speed to pull off on a turnoff and coast to a stop.

Airport security showed up and the guy didn't quite know what to do. We
told him we just needed a tow into our tiedown spot. He took our names
and certificate numbers and a brief statement of what had happened.

In discussion with my partner, we felt we did almost everything
correctly. We did not panic, we did not hesitate to declare the
emergency, we quickly agreed on roles and everything went smoothly. We
never really felt scared about the situation (a power failure might have
felt different!). When the situation first presented itself I thought
about flying to over the airport and cutting power, but I felt it would
be better not to have a guaranteed engine failure. We both felt this was
the less-risky way to handle the situation. We sort of stood there
saying to ourselves "we can't believe we just had an emergency!". It was
the first one for both of us in more than 20 years of flying each.

The plane is in the shop to get its cable replaced, apparently it broke
somewhere between the throttle quadrant and the carburetor, not at
either end.

Event Horizon





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