Could Blackjack bombers reach USA?

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 20:42:21 +0000, Ken Duffey
wrote:

Mike wrote:

Remember the Soviet "Blackjack" bomber that the U.S.S.R. started to
deploy in the late 1980s?

First flight 18 December 1981. First production flight 10 October 1984.
Operational with 184th GvTBAP at Priluki, Ukraine, 17 April 1987.

Currently approx 15 operational at Engels, Russia.

Wasn't this plane a virtual copy of the American B-1 in many ways?

Same general shape, very much larger and supersonic. Max take-off weight
606,260lb - (B-1B - 477,000lb).

Max speed 1,242mph - (B-1B 789mph).

What about it's range? Could the BlackJack bomber have taken off in
the Soviet Union and bombed the United States?

Range, loaded on internal fuel - 7,640 miles (B-1B - 3,444 miles)
Equipped for IFR.


Those are brochure numbers for the Blackjack. In the real world (at
least as far as FAI records go) the B-1 has the Blackjack beat in the
paylaod/range department.

Scott Ferrin wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 20:42:21 +0000, Ken Duffey
wrote:

Mike wrote:

Remember the Soviet "Blackjack" bomber that the U.S.S.R. started to
deploy in the late 1980s?

First flight 18 December 1981. First production flight 10 October 1984.
Operational with 184th GvTBAP at Priluki, Ukraine, 17 April 1987.

Currently approx 15 operational at Engels, Russia.

Wasn't this plane a virtual copy of the American B-1 in many ways?

Same general shape, very much larger and supersonic. Max take-off weight
606,260lb - (B-1B - 477,000lb).

Max speed 1,242mph - (B-1B 789mph).

What about it's range? Could the BlackJack bomber have taken off in
the Soviet Union and bombed the United States?

Range, loaded on internal fuel - 7,640 miles (B-1B - 3,444 miles)
Equipped for IFR.


Those are brochure numbers for the Blackjack.

How about B1 are the cited numbers for B1 are brochure numbers
as well?

In the real world (at
least as far as FAI records go) the B-1 has the Blackjack beat in the
paylaod/range department.

In its department where B1 is the only one amybe. Tu160
is much bigger?much faster and longer lange. Anyway
do you have any doubts about the question asked
"Could Blackjack bombers reach USA?"

Michael

Anyway
do you have any doubts about the question asked
"Could Blackjack bombers reach USA?"

Perhaps, but only a very few. Their mission capable rates were as low as 25%,
and that was in 1995.

I've told this story before, but its a good one and still makes me chuckle. In
1995 Barksdale AFB was host to two Russian Bear Bombers (Tu-95), their crews
and leadership. On the second day of their visit, several BUFF and Bear crews
were out on the flightline exchanging tours of their respective aircraft. A
B-1B from Dyess had weather diverted into Barksdale the previous night and as
the BUFF and Bear crews were doing their exterior tour of the Bear, the B-1B
attempted to leave and head back to Dyess. Due to the tremendous noise the B-1
created as it took off, all conversation, both Russian and translated English
stopped and everyone diverted their attention to the B-1 taking off. As the
B-1 got halfway down the runway, and almost directly in front of the Bears, a
puff of white smoke appeared and the throttles were brought back to idle.
Everyone continued to watch as the B-1 taxied to the end of the runway where it
was joined by emergency response vehicles. As the B-1 made the turn off the
runway, hydraulic fluid could be seen, literally, pouring out from underneath
the aircraft. The B-1 stopped, the entry hatch opened and the crew performed an
emergency egress. With the noise now gone, both BUFF and Bear crews returned
their attention to the exterior of the Bear. Before the tour could resume, one
of the Bear crewmembers looked at the others and uttered something in Russian
which made the rest of the Bear crewmembers burst out in laughter. When a BUFF
squadron commander asked what the joke was, the translator looked afraid to
answer. Just then in pretty good English, one of the Bear crewmembers pointed
to the B-1B, now in the hammerhead and surrounded by emergency vehicles and
said; "Just like Tu-160....piece of ****". At that, all the BUFF crews began to
roar with laughter, which made the Bear crews, and their concerned translator,
more relaxed and they began to laugh out loud again. It was truely a moment of
international bonding, crews of bombers built in the 1960s having a laugh at
the expense of their newer "replacement aircraft". Any way, when asked about
the Tu-160's mission capable rate, a rather gruff Russian Colonel said less
than 1 in 4 is flyable at any given time.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Yep, the B-1 is a real piece of ****...

Responsible for over 10% of the DMPIs struck in OIF with less than 1% of the
sorties...
9.4 DMPIs struck per sortie...
Went downtown Baghdad and Tikrit everyday, even in broad daylight, sometimes
with no SEAD support...
MC rate better than many aircraft during OIF...
"The weapon of choice"--CAOC Director

Hope you had a good laugh back then...

BONE WSO


"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
...
Anyway
do you have any doubts about the question asked
"Could Blackjack bombers reach USA?"

Perhaps, but only a very few. Their mission capable rates were as low as
25%,
and that was in 1995.

I've told this story before, but its a good one and still makes me
chuckle. In
1995 Barksdale AFB was host to two Russian Bear Bombers (Tu-95), their
crews
and leadership. On the second day of their visit, several BUFF and Bear
crews
were out on the flightline exchanging tours of their respective aircraft.
A
B-1B from Dyess had weather diverted into Barksdale the previous night and
as
the BUFF and Bear crews were doing their exterior tour of the Bear, the
B-1B
attempted to leave and head back to Dyess. Due to the tremendous noise the
B-1
created as it took off, all conversation, both Russian and translated
English
stopped and everyone diverted their attention to the B-1 taking off. As
the
B-1 got halfway down the runway, and almost directly in front of the
Bears, a
puff of white smoke appeared and the throttles were brought back to idle.
Everyone continued to watch as the B-1 taxied to the end of the runway
where it
was joined by emergency response vehicles. As the B-1 made the turn off
the
runway, hydraulic fluid could be seen, literally, pouring out from
underneath
the aircraft. The B-1 stopped, the entry hatch opened and the crew
performed an
emergency egress. With the noise now gone, both BUFF and Bear crews
returned
their attention to the exterior of the Bear. Before the tour could resume,
one
of the Bear crewmembers looked at the others and uttered something in
Russian
which made the rest of the Bear crewmembers burst out in laughter. When a
BUFF
squadron commander asked what the joke was, the translator looked afraid
to
answer. Just then in pretty good English, one of the Bear crewmembers
pointed
to the B-1B, now in the hammerhead and surrounded by emergency vehicles
and
said; "Just like Tu-160....piece of ****". At that, all the BUFF crews
began to
roar with laughter, which made the Bear crews, and their concerned
translator,
more relaxed and they began to laugh out loud again. It was truely a
moment of
international bonding, crews of bombers built in the 1960s having a laugh
at
the expense of their newer "replacement aircraft". Any way, when asked
about
the Tu-160's mission capable rate, a rather gruff Russian Colonel said
less
than 1 in 4 is flyable at any given time.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it
harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Yep, the B-1 is a real piece of ****...

Aww, did I hurt your feelings? I'm sorry, circa 1995 the B-1B was relatively
useless suffering from problems in its conventional munitions upgrade program
and a horrible MC rate. They have, fortunately, fixed many of the problems.

Responsible for over 10% of the DMPIs struck in OIF with less than 1% of the
sorties...

Whatever....who gave you those numbers anyway?

9.4 DMPIs struck per sortie...

So?

Went downtown Baghdad and Tikrit everyday, even in broad daylight, sometimes
with no SEAD support...

Wow!!! Really??? Uhh, you do realize nearly everyone did that right?

MC rate better than many aircraft during OIF...

Great job, first legitimate achievment you've quoted so far.

"The weapon of choice"--CAOC Director

LOL.....yeah, we've got several quotes in the BUFF world as well that we use to
pat ourselves on the back, they don't really mean much more than your MWS some
how impressive one of the *numerous* CAOC directors working the floor at PSAB.

Hope you had a good laugh back then...


Gimme a break. You take yourself (and your jet) far too seriously. In 1995
there were serious concerns about the future of the B-1B. At the time all they
could deliver were Mk-82s and CBU-87s, the latter suffering from several
problems. At the same time the Bone was capable of delivering just Mk-82s, it
was touted by someone in the Pentagon as the; "back bone of the bomber force".
Needless to say this didn't go over well in the BUFF world and having a Bone
show case an aborted takeoff right in front of visiting Russian aircrew, would
have been funny even if the anaolgy with the Blackjack hadn't been drawn.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
...
Anyway
do you have any doubts about the question asked
"Could Blackjack bombers reach USA?"

Perhaps, but only a very few. Their mission capable rates were as low as
25%,
and that was in 1995.

I've told this story before, but its a good one and still makes me
chuckle. In
1995 Barksdale AFB was host to two Russian Bear Bombers (Tu-95), their
crews
and leadership. On the second day of their visit, several BUFF and Bear
crews
were out on the flightline exchanging tours of their respective aircraft.
A
B-1B from Dyess had weather diverted into Barksdale the previous night and
as
the BUFF and Bear crews were doing their exterior tour of the Bear, the
B-1B
attempted to leave and head back to Dyess. Due to the tremendous noise the
B-1
created as it took off, all conversation, both Russian and translated
English
stopped and everyone diverted their attention to the B-1 taking off. As
the
B-1 got halfway down the runway, and almost directly in front of the
Bears, a
puff of white smoke appeared and the throttles were brought back to idle.
Everyone continued to watch as the B-1 taxied to the end of the runway
where it
was joined by emergency response vehicles. As the B-1 made the turn off
the
runway, hydraulic fluid could be seen, literally, pouring out from
underneath
the aircraft. The B-1 stopped, the entry hatch opened and the crew
performed an
emergency egress. With the noise now gone, both BUFF and Bear crews
returned
their attention to the exterior of the Bear. Before the tour could resume,
one
of the Bear crewmembers looked at the others and uttered something in
Russian
which made the rest of the Bear crewmembers burst out in laughter. When a
BUFF
squadron commander asked what the joke was, the translator looked afraid
to
answer. Just then in pretty good English, one of the Bear crewmembers
pointed
to the B-1B, now in the hammerhead and surrounded by emergency vehicles
and
said; "Just like Tu-160....piece of ****". At that, all the BUFF crews
began to
roar with laughter, which made the Bear crews, and their concerned
translator,
more relaxed and they began to laugh out loud again. It was truely a
moment of
international bonding, crews of bombers built in the 1960s having a laugh
at
the expense of their newer "replacement aircraft". Any way, when asked
about
the Tu-160's mission capable rate, a rather gruff Russian Colonel said
less
than 1 in 4 is flyable at any given time.


BUFDRVR

That's a great story! Here's another.
In late 1989, my crew was selected to fly a B-1B to Luke AFB for a kind of
static display. This display was arranged as the reciprocal for the
Minister of Defense of the USSR and his staff. You might recall that our
CJCS visited the USSR in the middle/late '80s and this was the U.S. turn to
reciprocate this unprecedented, high-level military exchange. On the ramp
at Luke, arranged in a semi-circle, was a KC-10, C-5, F-15C, F-16, B-1B and
B-52H. At the arranged time we all trooped out to our jets and waited.
Soon, a caravan of civilian stretch limos, suburbans and staff cars pulled
up and out gets a big crowd of military, U.S. & USSR, and civilians. After
some milling about, the civilians (wives of the visitors and their hosts)
head off and the military types walked slowly into the lare semicircle of
aircraft. A couple of minutes later, they come walking with purpose
straight over to us, a Major and three Captains. Sooo, this is my 15
minutes of fame I figure and I stride out to greet the highest ranking
military member of, arguably, the 2nd strongest nation in the world. We
exchange salutes, shake hands, he looks over the Bone, and I ask if he'd
like a tour inside. A hush falls over the crowd, the MoD looks pensive and
says........ "Nyet!" I was relieved since he was a big dude and I'm not
sure it would have been that easy getting him up there. Anyway, he sent two
staff members with me to go inside, and several others with the Co, O and D
for a tour of the outside. I have no idea what rank the two officers were
that went up with me, just that they were bomber pilots who were now working
in the MoD. One of them spoke good English so he translated for the other
guy and me. The Russian only speaker asked pretty innocuous questions about
how the aircraft worked, how it was to fly, my thoughts about its
performance etc. I told him the general P.R. answers but gave him a fairly
detailed description of our mainteance and birthing-of-a-new-weapon system
problems (those were in the news a lot at that time) that our Ops and MX
people were battling through. He listened and said that they were having
the same problems with the Blackjack only much worse. They had difficulty
getting more than a couple of sorties a day off the ground. I told him that
we were getting a lot more off the ground than that and were flying, fleet
wide, several dozen sorties a day. He responded that they knew that in the
MoD and were convinced that the "American Air Force" would solve the
problems and the B-1B would be their biggest air breathing threat. I then
said that I had flown the B-52 for 5 years and that there were many more
B-52s on alert than B-1Bs and he waved his hand and said "...not a problem,
we can shoot down slow B-52, we are not sure about shooting down B-1". (Of
course, the whole world knew that a C-172 could fly into Red Square unharmed
so I took that statement with a grain of salt). After some more
pleasantries, we climbed out and he handed me a couple of little boxes with
hero of the soviet union type trinkets inside and they went on their way to
the next aircraft. I noticed that the MoD and the crew looked in the
fighters, talked to the crew of the Buff and the other heavies but didn't go
inside any off them, and then trooped back to their caravan. They drove out
to some bleachers at midfield and soon the TBirds showed up and did a show.
Before the group left, a Lt Col came up to us in a hurry and asked if we
wanted our picture taken with the VCJCS. I said sure, bring him on over.
LOL. Pretty neat day. Anyway, I got the distinct impression that even in
the early days of the B-1B fielding, the people responsible for planning the
defense of the USSR knew of the teething problems the Bone was going
through, but were distinctly worried about the Bone making it through their
defenses. So I guess the Piece-of-**** scale is proportional and sliding
based on rank and seriousness of the job of the observer.

Regards,

Jim

So I guess the Piece-of-**** scale is proportional and sliding
based on rank and seriousness of the job of the observer.


Absolutely. You've got to remember, it was Bear crews who were laughing. I
think the thing that made it a true "bonding" was that everyone realized the
similarities between BUFF crews and Bear crews. Both were flying 30+ year old
aircraft. Both were more capable than their replacements, yet took a back seat
to them, at least publically. And both crews seemed to get a feeling of lack of
respect from their own Air Force.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

BUFDRVR wrote:

Anyway
do you have any doubts about the question asked
"Could Blackjack bombers reach USA?"

Perhaps, but only a very few. Their mission capable rates were as low as 25%,
and that was in 1995.

I've told this story before, but its a good one and still makes me chuckle. In
1995 Barksdale AFB was host to two Russian Bear Bombers (Tu-95), their crews
and leadership. On the second day of their visit, several BUFF and Bear crews
were out on the flightline exchanging tours of their respective aircraft. A
B-1B from Dyess had weather diverted into Barksdale the previous night and as
the BUFF and Bear crews were doing their exterior tour of the Bear, the B-1B
attempted to leave and head back to Dyess. Due to the tremendous noise the B-1
created as it took off, all conversation, both Russian and translated English
stopped and everyone diverted their attention to the B-1 taking off. As the
B-1 got halfway down the runway, and almost directly in front of the Bears, a
puff of white smoke appeared and the throttles were brought back to idle.
Everyone continued to watch as the B-1 taxied to the end of the runway where it
was joined by emergency response vehicles. As the B-1 made the turn off the
runway, hydraulic fluid could be seen, literally, pouring out from underneath
the aircraft. The B-1 stopped, the entry hatch opened and the crew performed an
emergency egress. With the noise now gone, both BUFF and Bear crews returned
their attention to the exterior of the Bear. Before the tour could resume, one
of the Bear crewmembers looked at the others and uttered something in Russian
which made the rest of the Bear crewmembers burst out in laughter. When a BUFF
squadron commander asked what the joke was, the translator looked afraid to
answer. Just then in pretty good English, one of the Bear crewmembers pointed
to the B-1B, now in the hammerhead and surrounded by emergency vehicles and
said; "Just like Tu-160....piece of ****". At that, all the BUFF crews began to
roar with laughter, which made the Bear crews, and their concerned translator,
more relaxed and they began to laugh out loud again. It was truely a moment of
international bonding, crews of bombers built in the 1960s having a laugh at
the expense of their newer "replacement aircraft". Any way, when asked about
the Tu-160's mission capable rate, a rather gruff Russian Colonel said less
than 1 in 4 is flyable at any given time.

BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Bufdrvr,

I have been meaning to ask you this since last August..........

I visited the MAKS airshow at Zhukovsky, Moscow and amongst the aircraft on display
was an operational example of both the Tu-95MS and Tu-160 from Engels.

Also on display - for the first time - were some visiting USAF a/c - KC-135, C-130,
F-15, F-16 plus a Buff from Minot - I just checked my photo of it - and I can't
make out the full serial - but it was AF xx 027 on the fin and 1027 on the forward
fuselage. It also had a red fin flash with yellow lettering that looks something
like 'Badoms' ??

I took the photo from a tethered balloon at the limit of my lens!

We couldn't get near the crews for the Russian crowd (not that I wanted too - I was
there to see Russian a/c, I can see Buffs at RAF Fairford anytime). The crews of
all the visiting a/c must have been overwhelmed by the Russian public who were
asking for autographs, getting their photos taken with the American running dog
agressors etc

What I wondered was whether you had heard any feedback from these visiting crews??

How was the evil empire ?

How did they enjoy the visit, what was the Russian hospitality like, how were they
treated, what was their impressions of the RusAF etc etc.

How did they route to Moscow - did they mingle with the crews of the Tu-95/Tu-160
etc

Anything ?

Cheers

Ken

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++
Ken Duffey - Flanker Freak & Russian Aviation Enthusiast
Flankers Website - http://www.flankers.co.uk/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++

but it was AF xx 027 on the fin and 1027 on the forward
fuselage.

That would have been 61027 on the tail.

It also had a red fin flash with yellow lettering that looks something
like 'Badoms' ??

Barrons. The 23rd BS is known as the "Barrons"

What I wondered was whether you had heard any feedback from these visiting
crews??

Just a 1 minute conversation. They said it was a great experience, the
Russians treated them very well, both civilian and military and that they hoped
to get back there in the future.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

(BUFDRVR) wrote in message ...
Anyway
do you have any doubts about the question asked
"Could Blackjack bombers reach USA?"

Perhaps, but only a very few. Their mission capable rates were as low as 25%,
and that was in 1995.

I've told this story before, but its a good one and still makes me chuckle. In
1995 Barksdale AFB was host to two Russian Bear Bombers (Tu-95), their crews
and leadership. On the second day of their visit, several BUFF and Bear crews
were out on the flightline exchanging tours of their respective aircraft. A
B-1B from Dyess had weather diverted into Barksdale the previous night and as
the BUFF and Bear crews were doing their exterior tour of the Bear, the B-1B
attempted to leave and head back to Dyess. Due to the tremendous noise the B-1
created as it took off, all conversation, both Russian and translated English
stopped and everyone diverted their attention to the B-1 taking off. As the
B-1 got halfway down the runway, and almost directly in front of the Bears, a
puff of white smoke appeared and the throttles were brought back to idle.
Everyone continued to watch as the B-1 taxied to the end of the runway where it
was joined by emergency response vehicles. As the B-1 made the turn off the
runway, hydraulic fluid could be seen, literally, pouring out from underneath
the aircraft. The B-1 stopped, the entry hatch opened and the crew performed an
emergency egress. With the noise now gone, both BUFF and Bear crews returned
their attention to the exterior of the Bear. Before the tour could resume, one
of the Bear crewmembers looked at the others and uttered something in Russian
which made the rest of the Bear crewmembers burst out in laughter. When a BUFF
squadron commander asked what the joke was, the translator looked afraid to
answer. Just then in pretty good English, one of the Bear crewmembers pointed
to the B-1B, now in the hammerhead and surrounded by emergency vehicles and
said; "Just like Tu-160....piece of ****". At that, all the BUFF crews began to
roar with laughter, which made the Bear crews, and their concerned translator,
more relaxed and they began to laugh out loud again. It was truely a moment of
international bonding, crews of bombers built in the 1960s having a laugh at
the expense of their newer "replacement aircraft". Any way, when asked about
the Tu-160's mission capable rate, a rather gruff Russian Colonel said less
than 1 in 4 is flyable at any given time.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Nice story BUFDRVR, thanks for posting it again. Just one point. Those BEAR
H that the US hosted were new build aircraft and only rolled off the
production line during the 80's. They could even have been only a few years
old as the last BEAR H rolled off the production line in the early
90's! (1991/92 IIRC)

TJ