JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million

On Mar 21, 8:00*am, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
*...

How do you tell the artillery to hit 150 meters NNW of the purple
smoke, or is that still relevant?

jsw

On Mar 21, 9:02*am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Mar 21, 8:00*am, Arved Sandstrom wrote:

*...

How do you tell the artillery to hit 150 meters NNW of the purple
smoke, or is that still relevant?

jsw

GPS and lasers

On Mar 21, 9:07*am, Jack Linthicum
wrote:
On Mar 21, 9:02*am, Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Mar 21, 8:00*am, Arved Sandstrom wrote:

*...

How do you tell the artillery to hit 150 meters NNW of the purple
smoke, or is that still relevant?

jsw

GPS and lasers

I helped develop some of that stuff and would be cautious about
relying on it against a technically sophisticated enemy who could
localize the emissions or spoof GPS with pseudolites.

Enough said, no examples this time.

jsw

On Mar 21, 9:50*am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Mar 21, 9:07*am, Jack Linthicum
wrote:

On Mar 21, 9:02*am, Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Mar 21, 8:00*am, Arved Sandstrom wrote:

*...

How do you tell the artillery to hit 150 meters NNW of the purple
smoke, or is that still relevant?

jsw

GPS and lasers

I helped develop some of that stuff and would be cautious about
relying on it against a technically sophisticated enemy who could
localize the emissions or spoof GPS with pseudolites.

Enough said, no examples this time.

jsw

When was the last time the U.S. military faced a "technically
sophisticated enemy"? How do you spoof military GPS?

Jack Linthicum wrote:
On Mar 21, 9:50 am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Mar 21, 9:07 am, Jack Linthicum
wrote:

On Mar 21, 9:02 am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Mar 21, 8:00 am, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
...
How do you tell the artillery to hit 150 meters NNW of the purple
smoke, or is that still relevant?
jsw
GPS and lasers
I helped develop some of that stuff and would be cautious about
relying on it against a technically sophisticated enemy who could
localize the emissions or spoof GPS with pseudolites.

Enough said, no examples this time.

jsw

When was the last time the U.S. military faced a "technically
sophisticated enemy"? How do you spoof military GPS?

China has a few modern weapons.

Andrew Swallow

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Mar 21, 8:00 am, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
...

How do you tell the artillery to hit 150 meters NNW of the purple
smoke, or is that still relevant?

jsw

Well, I guess if you don't know where you are there's always that
problem. Of course, if you don't know where you are then you've got
bigger problems.

AHS

Jim Wilkins wrote in news:403ede79-f9c2-4ed1-9568-
:

How do you tell the artillery to hit 150 meters NNW of the purple
smoke, or is that still relevant?

If indirect fire artillery fired the purple smoke, you order "Excalibur.
Direction 6000. Add 150. [X rounds.] Fire for effect." The observer sends
this via some form of digital message entry device hooked up to a VHF burst
transmitter.

[Generally, however, if you're firing smoke to mark a target, you're
dealing with a target that doesn't require smart ammo.]
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

On Mar 21, 9:35*am, Andrew Chaplin
wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote in news:403ede79-f9c2-4ed1-9568-
...

[Generally, however, if you're firing smoke to mark a target, you're
dealing with a target that doesn't require smart ammo.]
--
Andrew Chaplin

Good point. I was thinking of gun positions concealed on a rocky
hillside, able to target laser flashes and kill the designator.

jsw

Jim Wilkins wrote in news:06e4c642-660b-43ad-ab48-
:

On Mar 21, 9:35*am, Andrew Chaplin
wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote in news:403ede79-f9c2-4ed1-9568-
...

[Generally, however, if you're firing smoke to mark a target, you're
dealing with a target that doesn't require smart ammo.]

Good point. I was thinking of gun positions concealed on a rocky
hillside, able to target laser flashes and kill the designator.

Few if any service lasers "flash," at least not in the visible light
spectrum. Laser designators are usually on only from the report of
"Splash" -- about five seconds. It is a challenge to bring fire to bear
before the guys with the laser f*** off.

If you're talking indirect fire artillery, gun positions are never to be
dealt with lightly; you need a counter-battery policy, the basis of which
should usually be "go big or stay quiet" lest you attract unwelcome
attentions. If you're dealing with DF arty, talk to your nearest tankie.

I'm old school, so if I were bringing in air on guns as you describe, I
would use some sort of load with DPICM submunitions. Those are not
precision weapons and fitting GPS or other targeting aids to them when
you can observe the target is, well, a waste of time and money.

(My own government has sworn off DPICM because of its tendency to leave
UXO all over the show, a policy I think ill-advised. A better idea would
be to go with a bomblet with an extremely low probability of landing
blind.)
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

On Mar 21, 10:41*am, Andrew Chaplin
wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote in news:06e4c642-660b-43ad-ab48-
:

On Mar 21, 9:35*am, Andrew Chaplin
wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote in news:403ede79-f9c2-4ed1-9568-
...

[Generally, however, if you're firing smoke to mark a target, you're
dealing with a target that doesn't require smart ammo.]

Good point. I was thinking of gun positions concealed on a rocky
hillside, able to target laser flashes and kill the designator.

Few if any service lasers "flash," at least not in the visible light
spectrum. Laser designators are usually on only from the report of
"Splash" -- about five seconds. It is a challenge to bring fire to bear
before the guys with the laser f*** off.

If you're talking indirect fire artillery, gun positions are never to be
dealt with lightly; you need a counter-battery policy, the basis of which
should usually be "go big or stay quiet" lest you attract unwelcome
attentions. If you're dealing with DF arty, talk to your nearest tankie.

I'm old school, so if I were bringing in air on guns as you describe, I
would use some sort of load with DPICM submunitions. Those are not
precision weapons and fitting GPS or other targeting aids to them when
you can observe the target is, well, a waste of time and money.

(My own government has sworn off DPICM because of its tendency to leave
UXO all over the show, a policy I think ill-advised. A better idea would
be to go with a bomblet with an extremely low probability of landing
blind.)
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

Or timed self-dee