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DG-300 or LS-3?
Hello all - I've got a question for the competition pilots out the
Imagine you're a budding competition pilot with about 300 hours in your logbook. You've done a couple of Sports-class competitions and find them highly enjoyable. You begin to make plans to buy a partial share in a high-end machine in 2010/2011; but then have to change gears financially and keep costs in check. Now imagine you've standing in front of two aircraft: 1) A near-mint-condition DG-300 (with auto-hookups, great instrumentation, and DG's ergonomics and visibility). The ship has spent its life in the desert southwest of the USA. 2) A recently-refinished LS-3 (_not_ an "a" model) with good equipment - but an airframe that's a full 10 years older than the DG. The ship has spent its life on the East coast of the USA. Assume that it is only $3000 cheaper than the DG-300. According to some old Idaflieg data, the LS-3 is significantly better above 60 knots while the DG-300 has a noticeable climb-rate advantage at slower speeds. Not sure how accurate the Idaflieg data is, though. What would _you_ consider to be the better ship to own? If you owned one of them, would you sell it to get the other? Thanks for the assistance, --Noel |
#2
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DG-300 or LS-3?
On Apr 23, 12:54*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
Hello all - I've got a question for the competition pilots out the My opinion - spend your time/money on getting more contest experience. The glider won't make any difference, unless for some reason you really don't like the DG. Andy |
#3
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DG-300 or LS-3?
On Apr 23, 12:54*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
Hello all - I've got a question for the competition pilots out the Imagine you're a budding competition pilot with about 300 hours in your logbook. *You've done a couple of Sports-class competitions and find them highly enjoyable. *You begin to make plans to buy a partial share in a high-end machine in 2010/2011; but then have to change gears financially and keep costs in check. Now imagine you've standing in front of two aircraft: 1) A near-mint-condition DG-300 (with auto-hookups, great instrumentation, and DG's ergonomics and visibility). *The ship has spent its life in the desert southwest of the USA. 2) A recently-refinished LS-3 (_not_ an "a" model) with good equipment - but an airframe that's a full 10 years older than the DG. *The ship has spent its life on the East coast of the USA. *Assume that it is only $3000 cheaper than the DG-300. According to some old Idaflieg data, the LS-3 is significantly better above 60 knots while the DG-300 has a noticeable climb-rate advantage at slower speeds. *Not sure how accurate the Idaflieg data is, though. What would _you_ consider to be the better ship to own? *If you owned one of them, would you sell it to get the other? Thanks for the assistance, --Noel Actual cross-country performance of the two ships won't be much different - pilot skills will easily outweigh any difference in aerodynamic performance. I used to have an ASW-20 and flew regularly with a friend who had a DG-303 and the performance differences weren't large enough to be noticeable. I would base your decision on other factors, such as auto-hookups, whether you want a flapped ship, instruments, trailer and maintenance. In choosing my latest ship, I gave a higher weight to automatic hookups and a nice trailer than pure performance. Choose according to your own preferences. Mike |
#4
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DG-300 or LS-3?
*Choose according to
your own preferences. Some day you will want to sell it.. Which will sell more easily? That's important. Good trailer can make a big difference too. You can't beat a factory trailer with good fittings. A good refinish is very, very expensive. If damaged and repaired ,was it done by someone that knows repairs? GA |
#5
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DG-300 or LS-3?
On Apr 23, 3:54*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
Hello all - I've got a question for the competition pilots out the Imagine you're a budding competition pilot with about 300 hours in your logbook. *You've done a couple of Sports-class competitions and find them highly enjoyable. *You begin to make plans to buy a partial share in a high-end machine in 2010/2011; but then have to change gears financially and keep costs in check. Now imagine you've standing in front of two aircraft: 1) A near-mint-condition DG-300 (with auto-hookups, great instrumentation, and DG's ergonomics and visibility). *The ship has spent its life in the desert southwest of the USA. 2) A recently-refinished LS-3 (_not_ an "a" model) with good equipment - but an airframe that's a full 10 years older than the DG. *The ship has spent its life on the East coast of the USA. *Assume that it is only $3000 cheaper than the DG-300. According to some old Idaflieg data, the LS-3 is significantly better above 60 knots while the DG-300 has a noticeable climb-rate advantage at slower speeds. *Not sure how accurate the Idaflieg data is, though. What would _you_ consider to be the better ship to own? *If you owned one of them, would you sell it to get the other? Thanks for the assistance, --Noel If you are talking about Andy's LS-3 than I can tell you his glider climbs really well. I used to fly a very good climber SZD-55-1 and I climbed with Andy in the same thermal a few times. I was surprised how well he climbed. It is also an excellent runner. I would choose the LS-3 if performance was what I were after. Plus paint finish is ever lasting. |
#6
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DG-300 or LS-3?
On Apr 23, 3:54*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
Hello all - I've got a question for the competition pilots out the Imagine you're a budding competition pilot with about 300 hours in your logbook. *You've done a couple of Sports-class competitions and find them highly enjoyable. *You begin to make plans to buy a partial share in a high-end machine in 2010/2011; but then have to change gears financially and keep costs in check. Now imagine you've standing in front of two aircraft: 1) A near-mint-condition DG-300 (with auto-hookups, great instrumentation, and DG's ergonomics and visibility). *The ship has spent its life in the desert southwest of the USA. 2) A recently-refinished LS-3 (_not_ an "a" model) with good equipment - but an airframe that's a full 10 years older than the DG. *The ship has spent its life on the East coast of the USA. *Assume that it is only $3000 cheaper than the DG-300. According to some old Idaflieg data, the LS-3 is significantly better above 60 knots while the DG-300 has a noticeable climb-rate advantage at slower speeds. *Not sure how accurate the Idaflieg data is, though. What would _you_ consider to be the better ship to own? *If you owned one of them, would you sell it to get the other? Thanks for the assistance, --Noel If you are talking about Andy's LS-3 then I can tell you his glider climbs really well. I used to fly a very good climber SZD-55-1 and I climbed with Andy in the same thermal a few times. I was surprised how well he climbed. It is also an excellent runner. I would choose the LS-3 if performance was what I were after. Plus paint finish is ever lasting. |
#7
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DG-300 or LS-3?
On Apr 23, 3:54*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
Hello all - I've got a question for the competition pilots out the Imagine you're a budding competition pilot with about 300 hours in your logbook. *You've done a couple of Sports-class competitions and find them highly enjoyable. *You begin to make plans to buy a partial share in a high-end machine in 2010/2011; but then have to change gears financially and keep costs in check. Now imagine you've standing in front of two aircraft: 1) A near-mint-condition DG-300 (with auto-hookups, great instrumentation, and DG's ergonomics and visibility). *The ship has spent its life in the desert southwest of the USA. 2) A recently-refinished LS-3 (_not_ an "a" model) with good equipment - but an airframe that's a full 10 years older than the DG. *The ship has spent its life on the East coast of the USA. *Assume that it is only $3000 cheaper than the DG-300. According to some old Idaflieg data, the LS-3 is significantly better above 60 knots while the DG-300 has a noticeable climb-rate advantage at slower speeds. *Not sure how accurate the Idaflieg data is, though. What would _you_ consider to be the better ship to own? *If you owned one of them, would you sell it to get the other? Thanks for the assistance, --Noel If you opt for the LS-3, you'll want to add the cost of a Wing Rigger to the price. Those wings are really heavy. |
#8
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DG-300 or LS-3?
On 4/23/2010 2:36 PM, AK wrote:
On Apr 23, 3:54 pm, wrote: Hello all - I've got a question for the competition pilots out the Imagine you're a budding competition pilot with about 300 hours in your logbook. You've done a couple of Sports-class competitions and find them highly enjoyable. You begin to make plans to buy a partial share in a high-end machine in 2010/2011; but then have to change gears financially and keep costs in check. Now imagine you've standing in front of two aircraft: 1) A near-mint-condition DG-300 (with auto-hookups, great instrumentation, and DG's ergonomics and visibility). The ship has spent its life in the desert southwest of the USA. 2) A recently-refinished LS-3 (_not_ an "a" model) with good equipment - but an airframe that's a full 10 years older than the DG. The ship has spent its life on the East coast of the USA. Assume that it is only $3000 cheaper than the DG-300. According to some old Idaflieg data, the LS-3 is significantly better above 60 knots while the DG-300 has a noticeable climb-rate advantage at slower speeds. Not sure how accurate the Idaflieg data is, though. What would _you_ consider to be the better ship to own? If you owned one of them, would you sell it to get the other? Thanks for the assistance, --Noel Changing gliders is expensive. You lose money on the one you sell, then you spend a fortune upgrading the one you just bought. Keep the one you have, and spend the money on tows. |
#9
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DG-300 or LS-3?
On Apr 23, 12:54*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
Hello all - I've got a question for the competition pilots out the Imagine you're a budding competition pilot with about 300 hours in your logbook. *You've done a couple of Sports-class competitions and find them highly enjoyable. *You begin to make plans to buy a partial share in a high-end machine in 2010/2011; but then have to change gears financially and keep costs in check. Now imagine you've standing in front of two aircraft: 1) A near-mint-condition DG-300 (with auto-hookups, great instrumentation, and DG's ergonomics and visibility). *The ship has spent its life in the desert southwest of the USA. 2) A recently-refinished LS-3 (_not_ an "a" model) with good equipment - but an airframe that's a full 10 years older than the DG. *The ship has spent its life on the East coast of the USA. *Assume that it is only $3000 cheaper than the DG-300. According to some old Idaflieg data, the LS-3 is significantly better above 60 knots while the DG-300 has a noticeable climb-rate advantage at slower speeds. *Not sure how accurate the Idaflieg data is, though. What would _you_ consider to be the better ship to own? *If you owned one of them, would you sell it to get the other? Thanks for the assistance, --Noel Noel, John Cochrane makes a good point in his paper "a little faster please" I don't have it in front of me, but basically he say's the top pilots will always finish in the top spots even if they flew 20 year old sailplanes. So save yourself some money and implement the concepts he's put forth. Ron sure does well in that LS-3, but, he also did really well in his LS-1. With the legs the LS-3 has over the LS-1 it is becoming obvious to all of us that fly with him that indeed it is a big asset. I think you might want to fly with him and see how the DG-300 compares to the LS-3. My 2-cents worth..............coming from a guy who flies a 13m glider! Brad |
#10
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DG-300 or LS-3?
On Apr 23, 5:04*pm, Brad wrote:
My 2-cents worth..............coming from a guy who flies a 13m glider! Yeah, but even your 13M ship has a flap handle... I want one of those!! I feel so inadequate without one... ;-) --Noel P.S. I slacked off at work today and correlated data from Idaflieg and various Johnson Reports. At 80 knots the DG-300 achieves a glide- ratio of about 27:1. By comparison, the LS-3 can get 31:1. When Moffat and Johnson and others wrote a lot of their reports back in the 1970's and 1980's, the idea of high wing-loadings for faster competition flying was not yet in-vogue... so they didn't cover it much. But in strong conditions (i.e. Ephrata or other competition sites in the western USA), the benefits of a heavier flapped ship like the LS-3 are pretty significant (on paper at least). |
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