Use of weak links

On Jun 2, 4:43*am, Paul wrote:
Currently the club that I am part of don't seem to be too concerned about
the safety aspects of using the correct weak links for winch launching
and I'd like to know how safe it is.

Currently I see two issues with the winch launching:

1. Sometimes a weak link is not used at all. The gliders are attached
directly to the winch cable (via drogue chute and various connectors).

2. When a weak link is included in the cable (only a primary link - no
reserve link) it is used for all glider types (G102 Astir, G103 Twin II,
ASW20, LS4) and I'm not even sure what the breaking strain is. My guess
is it's a Tost #1 black (1000 daN) weak link but that's hard to tell
because its weathered and the protective sleeve obscures the Tost number.
The weak link is never changed between glider types.

According to what I have read (glider manuals and Tost manual) the
maximum winch load that should be exerted on most of the single seaters
is 500 daN and on the G103 Twin II it's 750 daN.

Am I being paranoid about safety? Are weak links not that important for
safe winch launching?

I took the matter up with the safety officer who said I need to take it
up with the CFI but I'd like to get some advice and input before I engage
with the CFI over the matter.
I'm new to soaring so I don't know it all.

Thanks

Here's hoping that the signal to noise ratio of a one on one
conversation with your CFI is better than that on r.a.s. (see
concurrent thread on altimeter settings, for example :-)).

Yours is a reasonable question that deserves a reasonable response.
My $0.02: you are not being 'paranoid' about anything.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 04:28:31 -0700, T8 wrote:
Here's hoping that the signal to noise ratio of a one on one
conversation with your CFI is better than that on r.a.s. (see concurrent
thread on altimeter settings, for example :-)).

Yours is a reasonable question that deserves a reasonable response. My
$0.02: you are not being 'paranoid' about anything.

-Evan Ludeman / T8


Thanks for the input everyone.

I'll take the matter up with my CFI and if not successful will stick to
aerotows while the rest of the club can risk their lives using the winch.

On 6/2/2010 7:23 AM, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 04:28:31 -0700, T8 wrote:
Here's hoping that the signal to noise ratio of a one on one
conversation with your CFI is better than that on r.a.s. (see concurrent
thread on altimeter settings, for example :-)).

Yours is a reasonable question that deserves a reasonable response. My
$0.02: you are not being 'paranoid' about anything.

-Evan Ludeman / T8


Thanks for the input everyone.

I'll take the matter up with my CFI and if not successful will stick to
aerotows while the rest of the club can risk their lives using the winch.

Weak links are there to protect the structural integrity of the glider.
If your club is not using weak links, they may be damaging the glider,
which might not be obvious. You are still putting yourself at risk if
you are flying a club glider that may have been damaged, regardless of
whether you are winch launching or using aero tows.

--
Mike Schumann

unbelievable! especially since a weak link is such an easy thing to add,
especially for ground launching!
you might be quite amazed at the numbers of pilots who call me asking what
the "proper weak link" should be when it is such a fundamental question and
one that every prospective student pilot needs to know even before taking a
practical test for a private pilot certificate!

using the TOST weak links is easy and the reserve weak link makes a lot of
sense since ALL weak links fatigue in time and become weaker before actually
breaking.the idea of the reserve weak link is so that when this happened and
the main weak link fails from fatigue the reserve link will hold under
normal loads and the launch is still completed without an actual failure but
the broke link is then visible for the next launch (we check these before
each launch .right? ((you are supposed to) and you know then to replace the
broken link before continuing with another launch. simple to use, and even
simpler to change from one weak link strength to another as needed by using
the notch connectors or similar attachment.you can see more on my website
page http://wingsandwheels.com/page30.htm

regards
Tim Mara

Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com


"T8" wrote in message
...
On Jun 2, 4:43 am, Paul wrote:
Currently the club that I am part of don't seem to be too concerned about
the safety aspects of using the correct weak links for winch launching
and I'd like to know how safe it is.

Currently I see two issues with the winch launching:

1. Sometimes a weak link is not used at all. The gliders are attached
directly to the winch cable (via drogue chute and various connectors).

2. When a weak link is included in the cable (only a primary link - no
reserve link) it is used for all glider types (G102 Astir, G103 Twin II,
ASW20, LS4) and I'm not even sure what the breaking strain is. My guess
is it's a Tost #1 black (1000 daN) weak link but that's hard to tell
because its weathered and the protective sleeve obscures the Tost number.
The weak link is never changed between glider types.

According to what I have read (glider manuals and Tost manual) the
maximum winch load that should be exerted on most of the single seaters
is 500 daN and on the G103 Twin II it's 750 daN.

Am I being paranoid about safety? Are weak links not that important for
safe winch launching?

I took the matter up with the safety officer who said I need to take it
up with the CFI but I'd like to get some advice and input before I engage
with the CFI over the matter.
I'm new to soaring so I don't know it all.

Thanks

Here's hoping that the signal to noise ratio of a one on one
conversation with your CFI is better than that on r.a.s. (see
concurrent thread on altimeter settings, for example :-)).

Yours is a reasonable question that deserves a reasonable response.
My $0.02: you are not being 'paranoid' about anything.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

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database 5166 (20100602) __________

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It is better not to use a reserve weak link. This requires a doubled
link which have to be of different designs, The main link has two
round holes and the reserve has one slightly slotted hole. We had a
fatality in the UK where somebody inadvertantly fitted two main links
to the carrier, which effectively doubled the strength of the weak
link, and then a glider had a mainspar failure during the launch on a
rather windy rough day. See:

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/sites/aaib/pu...eon_502118.cfm

There was some evidence that the wood/metal composite mainspar was
slightly corroded in this glider, but it is still unlikely that it
would have failed if launched on the correct weak link.

If you want to avoid weak link breaks using a single link, perhaps you
should change the link after 100 launches, or monitor its condition.
The Tost links have a hole drilled in them, like a tensile test piece,
and this will show signs of distorting or cracking before it fails.

Derek Copeland


On Jun 2, 2:53*pm, "Tim Mara" wrote:
unbelievable! especially since a weak link is such an easy thing to add,
especially for ground launching!
you might be quite amazed at the numbers of pilots who call me asking what
the "proper weak link" should be when it is such a fundamental question and
one that every prospective student pilot needs to know even before taking a
practical test for a private pilot certificate!

using the TOST weak links is easy and the reserve weak link makes a lot of
sense since ALL weak links fatigue in time and become weaker before actually
breaking.the idea of the reserve weak link is so that when this happened and
the main weak link fails from fatigue the reserve link will hold under
normal loads and the launch is still completed without an actual failure but
the broke link is then visible for the next launch (we check these before
each launch .right? ((you are supposed to) and you know then to replace the
broken link before continuing with another launch. simple to use, and even
simpler to change from one weak link strength to another as needed by using
the notch connectors or similar attachment.you can see more on my website
pagehttp://wingsandwheels.com/page30.htm

regards
Tim Mara

Please visit the Wings & Wheels website atwww.wingsandwheels.com

"T8" wrote in message

...
On Jun 2, 4:43 am, Paul wrote:





Currently the club that I am part of don't seem to be too concerned about
the safety aspects of using the correct weak links for winch launching
and I'd like to know how safe it is.

Currently I see two issues with the winch launching:

1. Sometimes a weak link is not used at all. The gliders are attached
directly to the winch cable (via drogue chute and various connectors).

2. When a weak link is included in the cable (only a primary link - no
reserve link) it is used for all glider types (G102 Astir, G103 Twin II,
ASW20, LS4) and I'm not even sure what the breaking strain is. My guess
is it's a Tost #1 black (1000 daN) weak link but that's hard to tell
because its weathered and the protective sleeve obscures the Tost number.