Flight navigation/moving map software for Android System

The new Samsung Galaxy Tablet uses the Android System. Do any of the
current flight software systems run on Android? If so which ones? How
well do they interface with the SN10 or 302 ? How about the XCSoar
program in beta?

In measuring the Galaxy Tablet it is really only about 1.5 inches
taller and wider than my current 3955 setup in cradle. Seems like a
good possibility for upgrading. Would be able to get satellite feeds
as well...

Steve
S9

On Dec 26, 7:14*am, Stephen Michalik
wrote:
The new Samsung Galaxy Tablet uses the Android System. Do any of the
current flight software systems run on Android? If so which ones? How
well do they interface with the SN10 or 302 ? * How about the XCSoar
program in beta?

In measuring the Galaxy Tablet it is really only about 1.5 inches
taller and wider than my current 3955 setup in cradle. *Seems like a
good possibility for upgrading. Would be able to get satellite feeds
as well...

Steve
S9

The Galaxy is interesting but does not run Honeycomb (the upcoming
Android release aimed at tablets) and personally I would hold off on
buying an Android tablet until they do. Once Honeycomb is out you will
likely see a more interesting tablets and market for software. How
many tablets will be a form factor suitable for cockpits well see.

The only significant soaring software folks publicly playing with
Android seem to be XCSoar. They have a (free of course) version on the
Android Market, I've not played with it and I don't know what devices
it works on (and the only Android device I have is an old G1 phone I
use for testing web content).

Windows Mobile and Windows CE need a mercy killing. Now if we just get
a real daylight visible Android tablet...

Darryl

On Dec 26, 10:48*am, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Dec 26, 7:14*am, Stephen Michalik

wrote:
The new Samsung Galaxy Tablet uses the Android System. Do any of the
current flight software systems run on Android? If so which ones? How
well do they interface with the SN10 or 302 ? * How about the XCSoar
program in beta?

In measuring the Galaxy Tablet it is really only about 1.5 inches
taller and wider than my current 3955 setup in cradle. *Seems like a
good possibility for upgrading. Would be able to get satellite feeds
as well...

Steve
S9

The Galaxy is interesting but does not run Honeycomb (the upcoming
Android release aimed at tablets) and personally I would hold off on
buying an Android tablet until they do. Once Honeycomb is out you will
likely see a more interesting tablets and market for software. How
many tablets will be a form factor suitable for cockpits well see.

The only significant soaring software folks publicly playing with
Android seem to be XCSoar. They have a (free of course) version on the
Android Market, I've not played with it and I don't know what devices
it works on (and the only Android device I have is an old G1 phone I
use for testing web content).

Windows Mobile and Windows CE need a mercy killing. Now if we just get
a real daylight visible Android tablet...

Darryl

I agree on the CE mercy killing. It's time for an upgrade to say the
least. Our technical staff at work is using the Galaxy tablet and so
far it is a decent machine.
it would be nice for a soaring software package to come out in time
for spring maintenance work on our gliders for an off the shelf
tablet.

Maybe next year...

On Dec 26 2010, 11:48*am, Darryl Ramm wrote:

The Galaxy is interesting but does not run Honeycomb (the upcoming
Android release aimed at tablets) and personally I would hold off on
buying an Android tablet until they do. Once Honeycomb is out you will
likely see a more interesting tablets and market for software. How
many tablets will be a form factor suitable for cockpits well see.

I'm not too sure that Honeycomb is going to make a difference here.
Honeycomb's not going to really change the kernel or operating system,
it's basically just UI optimizations for larger screens --
optimizations that make no difference at all when you're running a
full-screen app. Most of Honeycomb is still secret, so we could both
end up being wrong.

The only significant soaring software folks publicly playing with
Android seem to be XCSoar. They have a (free of course) version on the
Android Market, I've not played with it and I don't know what devices
it works on (and the only Android device I have is an old G1 phone I
use for testing web content).

XCSoar was built to be an Open Source (Free as in Free Speech as well
as in Free Beer) solution for WinCE/Mo devices, and at that it was
great. It's now undergoing a "port" to run on Linux, which will
include both MeeGo (formerly known as Maemo, the Linux OS from Nokia)
and Android. Because this is a stable WinCE/Mo application, a port to
Linux is fraught with difficult challenges and is a significant
technical undertaking. The internal design of the application will
have been architected based on Windows philosophies, and I've had
nothing but terrible experiences with other Windows applications
ported to Linux.

That being said, I wish nothing but success to those heroes that are
investing their time, talents and energies in this effort.

Four years ago, I gave up on Windows CE/Mobile because every single
interaction with the hardware and operating system cranked up my blood
pressure. As a 12-year Linux professional, I just couldn't take it,
flying was supposed to be for fun.

So I got a Nokia N800 running Maemo (now called MeeGo), and I
installed the Cumulus application from http://kflog.org/cumulus/ --
and I gotta say, that was WAY BETTER than using Windows. I've found
that this solution is incredibly rare in North America, but there are
a few.

As soon as Cumulus was working on Android, I started shopping for an
Android device. I went out in December and bought an HTC Desire Z
(same as a T-Mobile G2, but with a different cellular radio chip).
Because Cumulus was designed and written for Linux from Day 1, it
didn't really have to be ported to Android, just recompiled. I
haven't tried it in the air yet, but it seems to be working great for
me on the ground.

XCSoar is by no means the only game in town for Android, and I've no
doubt that XCSoar on Android might even get better than Cumulus on
Android in 6-24 months because of their current userbase and momentum,
I'm mostly just delighted to see two open-source soaring applications
on an almost-open platform.

You can read about the Android version of Cumulus at
http://www.draisberghof.de/android/cumulus/

I just installed XCSoar 5 minutes ago on my Desire Z to check it out.
My first impressions are that it's clunky and slow, putting extra
horsepower in to emulating windows buttons instead of using android
buttons/menus in the UI. That being said, I'm going to load up the
maps and airspaces in a few weeks and give it a fair shot at winning
me over from Cumulus -- but that won't be easy.

Windows Mobile and Windows CE need a mercy killing. Now if we just get
a real daylight visible Android tablet...

I hear the Dell Streak tablet is great in sun, and at 5", it might be
a better fit for the cockpit than a 7" or 11" tablet. The Coby tablet
can be had for $150 if you hunt around enough.

Rob.Russell wrote:
The internal design of the application will have been architected
based on Windows philosophies, and I've had nothing but terrible
experiences with other Windows applications ported to Linux.

I am the one doing the port (now joined by Olaf Hartmann), and I took
the very long (and proper) way to do it: clean up the code base,
loosen it from its Windows origins, build the rendering engine on top
of a OS-unaware painting library, and implement a painting backend for
Linux/Android (using either SDL_gfx or OpenGL). All of the other OS
specific things are abstracted too, but not all of it is implemented
on Linux yet. It's not done yet, but it will be when the season in
the northern hemisphere starts (probably XCSoar 6.1).

I just installed XCSoar 5 minutes ago on my Desire Z to check it out.
My first impressions are that it's clunky and slow, putting extra
horsepower in to emulating windows buttons instead of using android
buttons/menus in the UI. That being said, I'm going to load up the
maps and airspaces in a few weeks and give it a fair shot at winning
me over from Cumulus -- but that won't be easy.

You mean you installed XCSoar 6? There's no 5 for Android.

No, it's not putting any "extra" horsepower into emulating Windows
buttons - it just doesn't use Android's UI library, because Android's
UI library is Java only, and XCSoar is C++. Java is a lot slower than
C++. You are right that XCSoar/Android is currently quite slow, but
that is because we havn't optimized it yet, we have concentrated on
making XCSoar 6 a good release on Windows, and you can't do everything
at the same time.

We might use native Android controls at some point for some things
(like dialog boxes), but be sure that it will definitely not be a
performance advantage.

Max

Hi Max

I am interested in making this work on the Samsung Galaxy S - Android +
OLED screen. Might even be useful - and will certainly be better than my
old HP3850 that died last year...

How do I get to test and play.
(I used to be a programmer - even wrote a little C - no C++ - tells you
how long ago)

Cheers
Bruce

On 2011/01/03 9:35 AM, Max Kellermann wrote:
wrote:
The internal design of the application will have been architected
based on Windows philosophies, and I've had nothing but terrible
experiences with other Windows applications ported to Linux.

I am the one doing the port (now joined by Olaf Hartmann), and I took
the very long (and proper) way to do it: clean up the code base,
loosen it from its Windows origins, build the rendering engine on top
of a OS-unaware painting library, and implement a painting backend for
Linux/Android (using either SDL_gfx or OpenGL). All of the other OS
specific things are abstracted too, but not all of it is implemented
on Linux yet. It's not done yet, but it will be when the season in
the northern hemisphere starts (probably XCSoar 6.1).

I just installed XCSoar 5 minutes ago on my Desire Z to check it out.
My first impressions are that it's clunky and slow, putting extra
horsepower in to emulating windows buttons instead of using android
buttons/menus in the UI. That being said, I'm going to load up the
maps and airspaces in a few weeks and give it a fair shot at winning
me over from Cumulus -- but that won't be easy.

You mean you installed XCSoar 6? There's no 5 for Android.

No, it's not putting any "extra" horsepower into emulating Windows
buttons - it just doesn't use Android's UI library, because Android's
UI library is Java only, and XCSoar is C++. Java is a lot slower than
C++. You are right that XCSoar/Android is currently quite slow, but
that is because we havn't optimized it yet, we have concentrated on
making XCSoar 6 a good release on Windows, and you can't do everything
at the same time.

We might use native Android controls at some point for some things
(like dialog boxes), but be sure that it will definitely not be a
performance advantage.

Max

--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771 & Std Cirrus #57

On Jan 3, 7:38*am, BruceGreeff wrote:

How do I get to test and play.
(I used to be a programmer - even wrote a little C - no C++ - tells you
how long ago)

Testing and playing with XCSoar for Android starts at:
http://max.kellermann.name/projects/xcsoar/ -- Just search the Android
Market on your device for "XCSoar." If you have an existing XCSoar
Windows PDA, you should be able to just copy the same maps/data over
to an XCSoarData directory on the SD card of your Android device.

Testing and playing with Cumulus for Android starts at:
http://www.draisberghof.de/android/cumulus/ -- Just search the Android
Market on your device for "XCSoar." (Seems to require Android 2.2
"Froyo"). How to get the maps and airspace files is documented at
that link, as well.

Cheers,

Rob

On Jan 3, 2:35*am, Max Kellermann wrote:
I am the one doing the port (now joined by Olaf Hartmann), and I took
the very long (and proper) way to do it: clean up the code base,
loosen it from its Windows origins, build the rendering engine on top
of a OS-unaware painting library, and implement a painting backend for
Linux/Android (using either SDL_gfx or OpenGL). *All of the other OS
specific things are abstracted too, but not all of it is implemented
on Linux yet. *It's not done yet, but it will be when the season in
the northern hemisphere starts (probably XCSoar 6.1).

Thanks for your efforts! My negative comments relate to other
attempts to port other Windows applications to Linux (and vice
versa!), done by other people -- I have never seen person or team
accomplish that kind of task adequately for my needs, including multi-
million-dollar corporate attempts.

I really do wish the best for this project.

I just installed XCSoar 5 minutes ago on my Desire Z to check it out.
You mean you installed XCSoar 6? *There's no 5 for Android.

5 minutes before writing that, I had only just then installed XCSoar
for Android.

Cheers,

Rob

Rob.Russell wrote:
I have never seen person or team accomplish that kind of task
adequately for my needs, including multi- million-dollar corporate
attempts.

Actually, that is no surprise. The primary goal of corporate projects
is to maximize monetary profit, and our primary goal is technical
perfectionism just for the fun of it.

We can take paths that no company can afford. It doesn't cost us a
single dollar, and doing only a mediocre software doesn't increase our
profit.

Knowing that, is it surprising that there is no Android/MeeGo port of
any commercial glide computer? I talked to one vendor recently, and
the representative insisted that Windows CE is still a future-proof
platform... (even though Windows Phone 7 is not compatible)

Max

On Jan 1, 11:24*pm, "Rob.Russell" wrote:
On Dec 26 2010, 11:48*am, Darryl Ramm wrote:

The Galaxy is interesting but does not run Honeycomb (the upcoming
Android release aimed at tablets) and personally I would hold off on
buying an Android tablet until they do. Once Honeycomb is out you will
likely see a more interesting tablets and market for software. How
many tablets will be a form factor suitable for cockpits well see.

I'm not too sure that Honeycomb is going to make a difference here.
Honeycomb's not going to really change the kernel or operating system,
it's basically just UI optimizations for larger screens --
optimizations that make no difference at all when you're running a
full-screen app. *Most of Honeycomb is still secret, so we could both
end up being wrong.

The only significant soaring software folks publicly playing with
Android seem to be XCSoar. They have a (free of course) version on the
Android Market, I've not played with it and I don't know what devices
it works on (and the only Android device I have is an old G1 phone I
use for testing web content).

XCSoar was built to be an Open Source (Free as in Free Speech as well
as in Free Beer) solution for WinCE/Mo devices, and at that it was
great. *It's now undergoing a "port" to run on Linux, which will
include both MeeGo (formerly known as Maemo, the Linux OS from Nokia)
and Android. *Because this is a stable WinCE/Mo application, a port to
Linux is fraught with difficult challenges and is a significant
technical undertaking. *The internal design of the application will
have been architected based on Windows philosophies, and I've had
nothing but terrible experiences with other Windows applications
ported to Linux.

That being said, I wish nothing but success to those heroes that are
investing their time, talents and energies in this effort.

Four years ago, I gave up on Windows CE/Mobile because every single
interaction with the hardware and operating system cranked up my blood
pressure. *As a 12-year Linux professional, I just couldn't take it,
flying was supposed to be for fun.

So I got a Nokia N800 running Maemo (now called MeeGo), and I
installed the Cumulus application fromhttp://kflog.org/cumulus/--
and I gotta say, that was WAY BETTER than using Windows. *I've found
that this solution is incredibly rare in North America, but there are
a few.

As soon as Cumulus was working on Android, I started shopping for an
Android device. *I went out in December and bought an HTC Desire Z
(same as a T-Mobile G2, but with a different cellular radio chip).
Because Cumulus was designed and written for Linux from Day 1, it
didn't really have to be ported to Android, just recompiled. *I
haven't tried it in the air yet, but it seems to be working great for
me on the ground.

XCSoar is by no means the only game in town for Android, and I've no
doubt that XCSoar on Android might even get better than Cumulus on
Android in 6-24 months because of their current userbase and momentum,
I'm mostly just delighted to see two open-source soaring applications
on an almost-open platform.

You can read about the Android version of Cumulus athttp://www.draisberghof.de/android/cumulus/

I just installed XCSoar 5 minutes ago on my Desire Z to check it out.
My first impressions are that it's clunky and slow, putting extra
horsepower in to emulating windows buttons instead of using android
buttons/menus in the UI. *That being said, I'm going to load up the
maps and airspaces in a few weeks and give it a fair shot at winning
me over from Cumulus -- but that won't be easy.

Windows Mobile and Windows CE need a mercy killing. Now if we just get
a real daylight visible Android tablet...

I hear the Dell Streak tablet is great in sun, and at 5", it might be
a better fit for the cockpit than a 7" or 11" tablet. *The Coby tablet
can be had for $150 if you hunt around enough.

Honeycomb is going to make a significant difference as its the enabler
for a whole Android tablet ecosystem and it makes sense for Android
developers to target that platform. The only reason not to now is
Honeycomb is not in their hands. And developers may well want to take
advantage of some of the Honeycomb goodies in future... but yes there
is nothing core per-se that prevents porting to non-Honeycomb
platforms today but compared to what is expected to arrive soon I
would skip the current stuff in a hearbeat...

Darryl