The F-102 Delta Dagger (Was GWB as a Nat'l Guard Fighter Pilot threads.)

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:03:28 GMT, "Mark" wrote:


"David E. Powell" wrote in message
ws.com...
OK. I have seen the debate over GWB as an F-102 pilot, so I was wondering
about a couple of things.

First, was the F-102 taken out of service in the early 1970s? I have to
ask
because as a kid I remember the Guard around here flying F-106s up to
around
1990 or 1991 or so, and they were closely related to the F-102. Though I
recall them being (much) faster. Mach 1.8 vs. Mach 2.32 IIRC.

HANG (Hawaii) flew 102 until 1977 (last unit as best I can find out). Now
the be TOTALLY correct Deuce was flown much longer than that as drone.

The Six was faster due to the fact that F-106 had engine with more thrust
(J75 vice J57). Not sure, but don't think Deuce had variable inlet either
(open to correction)

The six also had an area-ruled fuse, that is significant for a +mach bird.

Al MInyard

"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:03:28 GMT, "Mark"
wrote:


"David E. Powell" wrote in message
ws.com...
OK. I have seen the debate over GWB as an F-102 pilot, so I was
wondering
about a couple of things.

First, was the F-102 taken out of service in the early 1970s? I have to
ask
because as a kid I remember the Guard around here flying F-106s up to
around
1990 or 1991 or so, and they were closely related to the F-102. Though
I
recall them being (much) faster. Mach 1.8 vs. Mach 2.32 IIRC.

HANG (Hawaii) flew 102 until 1977 (last unit as best I can find out).
Now
the be TOTALLY correct Deuce was flown much longer than that as drone.

The Six was faster due to the fact that F-106 had engine with more thrust
(J75 vice J57). Not sure, but don't think Deuce had variable inlet
either
(open to correction)

The six also had an area-ruled fuse, that is significant for a +mach bird.

Actually, Al, the 102 used area rule--the lack of area rule resulted in the
first protype YF-102 being firmly subsonic. Redesign to incorporate area
rule yielded the F-102A, which was our first supersonic interceptor.

Brooks


Al MInyard

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:05:42 -0500, "Kevin Brooks" wrote:


"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:03:28 GMT, "Mark"
wrote:


"David E. Powell" wrote in message
ws.com...
OK. I have seen the debate over GWB as an F-102 pilot, so I was
wondering
about a couple of things.

First, was the F-102 taken out of service in the early 1970s? I have to
ask
because as a kid I remember the Guard around here flying F-106s up to
around
1990 or 1991 or so, and they were closely related to the F-102. Though
I
recall them being (much) faster. Mach 1.8 vs. Mach 2.32 IIRC.

HANG (Hawaii) flew 102 until 1977 (last unit as best I can find out).
Now
the be TOTALLY correct Deuce was flown much longer than that as drone.

The Six was faster due to the fact that F-106 had engine with more thrust
(J75 vice J57). Not sure, but don't think Deuce had variable inlet
either
(open to correction)

The six also had an area-ruled fuse, that is significant for a +mach bird.

Actually, Al, the 102 used area rule--the lack of area rule resulted in the
first protype YF-102 being firmly subsonic. Redesign to incorporate area
rule yielded the F-102A, which was our first supersonic interceptor.

Brooks


Al MInyard

OOOOPS, thanks for the correction, I was probably thinking of pictures
of the prototypes.

A;l Minyard

"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
...

The six also had an area-ruled fuse, that is significant for a +mach bird.


So did the deuce.

"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
...
The six also had an area-ruled fuse, that is significant for a +mach bird.

Al MInyard

As did the F-102. See Joe Baugher article at
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f102_1.html part of which I quote below. The
XF-92A is the aircraft which did not have "area rule".

Tex


The F-102 project was in serious trouble, and if a fix for the performance
problems could not be found, the entire project was in danger of
cancellation.

While eight more YF-102s (Model 8-82, serials 53-1779/1786) were being built
to the same standards as the first two aircraft, Convair embarked on a major
investigation and redesign program in an attempt to save the F-102. The
salvation of the project turned out to be in the "area rule" devised by NACA
scientist Richard Whitcomb. According to the area rule, the total cross
sectional area along the direction of flight should be a constant in order
to achieve minimum transonic drag. In order to achieve this, it was required
that the fuselage be narrowed down in the region where the wing roots were
attached, then broadened back out again when the wing trailing edge was
reached. This gave the aircraft fuselage a characteristic "wasp-waist" or
"Coke-bottle" shape. In order to achieve this, the length of the fuselage
was increased by 11 feet, and a pair of aerodynamic tail fairings were added
aft of the trailing edge, these fairings extending beyond the end of the
afterburner tailpipe in a pair of characteristic protrusions. These tail
fairings were for purely aerodynamic purposes and had no other function. A
new cockpit canopy with a sharper leading edge was fitted, although it had
an adverse effect on overall visibility. Cambered leading edges were fitted
to the thin delta wings to improve the behavior of the thin airfoil at high
angles of attack, and the wingtips were given wash-in.

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:41:07 -0700, "Tex Houston" wrote:


"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
.. .
The six also had an area-ruled fuse, that is significant for a +mach bird.

Al MInyard

As did the F-102. See Joe Baugher article at
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f102_1.html part of which I quote below. The
XF-92A is the aircraft which did not have "area rule".

Tex


The F-102 project was in serious trouble, and if a fix for the performance
problems could not be found, the entire project was in danger of
cancellation.

While eight more YF-102s (Model 8-82, serials 53-1779/1786) were being built
to the same standards as the first two aircraft, Convair embarked on a major
investigation and redesign program in an attempt to save the F-102. The
salvation of the project turned out to be in the "area rule" devised by NACA
scientist Richard Whitcomb. According to the area rule, the total cross
sectional area along the direction of flight should be a constant in order
to achieve minimum transonic drag. In order to achieve this, it was required
that the fuselage be narrowed down in the region where the wing roots were
attached, then broadened back out again when the wing trailing edge was
reached. This gave the aircraft fuselage a characteristic "wasp-waist" or
"Coke-bottle" shape. In order to achieve this, the length of the fuselage
was increased by 11 feet, and a pair of aerodynamic tail fairings were added
aft of the trailing edge, these fairings extending beyond the end of the
afterburner tailpipe in a pair of characteristic protrusions. These tail
fairings were for purely aerodynamic purposes and had no other function. A
new cockpit canopy with a sharper leading edge was fitted, although it had
an adverse effect on overall visibility. Cambered leading edges were fitted
to the thin delta wings to improve the behavior of the thin airfoil at high
angles of attack, and the wingtips were given wash-in.


Thank you very much, Tex.

Al Minyard

"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
...

The six also had an area-ruled fuse, that is significant for a +mach bird.

As did the Deuce.