Engine Out Landing. Big Deal?

On Mar 25, 12:15*pm, "vaughn" wrote:
"soartech" wrote in message

...

I think the solution is that every new power pilot should be required
to have 20 flights in gliders before even stepping into a plane with
an engine.

I have a lot more time in gliders than in airplanes, but I wouldn't brag too
much in advance about my likelihood of making a safe power-off emergency landing
in an airplane. *Flying a 7 to 1 airplane with little or no glide path control
takes a somewhat different skill set than doing the same with a 30 to 1 glider
with good spoilers.and (likely) a lower approach speed.

Vaughn

this.

all my power flying friends seem to think i don't have any reason to
sweat an engine failure in an airplane now since i have glider
experience. not so. having an engine failure at 500 ft in an
airplane and ending up with a successful landing is something to be
proud of, I think. You have, at best, 60 seconds to make all the
right decisions from that altitude. You'll probably spend at least
1/3 of that time realizing what went wrong and then recovering from
the mistakes you made during that realization period. then you have
(at best) 40 seconds to determine a course of action and execute.
I'll take a real glider any day.

On Mar 25, 12:26*pm, Tony wrote:
On Mar 25, 12:15*pm, "vaughn" wrote:

"soartech" wrote in message

....

I think the solution is that every new power pilot should be required
to have 20 flights in gliders before even stepping into a plane with
an engine.

I have a lot more time in gliders than in airplanes, but I wouldn't brag too
much in advance about my likelihood of making a safe power-off emergency landing
in an airplane. *Flying a 7 to 1 airplane with little or no glide path control
takes a somewhat different skill set than doing the same with a 30 to 1 glider
with good spoilers.and (likely) a lower approach speed.

Vaughn

this.

all my power flying friends seem to think i don't have any reason to
sweat an engine failure in an airplane now since i have glider
experience. *not so. *having an engine failure at 500 ft in an
airplane and ending up with a successful landing is something to be
proud of, I think. *You have, at best, 60 seconds to make all the
right decisions from that altitude. *You'll probably spend at least
1/3 of that time realizing what went wrong and then recovering from
the mistakes you made during that realization period. *then you have
(at best) 40 seconds to determine a course of action and execute.
I'll take a real glider any day.

Agreed. A normal approach in a glider is very similar to a power on
approach in a plane - as long as you don't need to go around.

If you want to simulate a power off approach, take a glider with real
effective spoilers (the old L13 Blanik will do nicely, not sure if the
L23's spoilers are as good), get off tow over the field, pull on full
spoilers, then fly the pattern at 60 knots or so (without closing the
spoilers). Even more dramatic with a glider like a 1-34 or 2-32 with
terminal velocity dive brakes.

Actually, its a pretty good training maneuver, and fun - but remember,
in a glider you can still close the spoilers if you pooch it; but in a
power plane with an engine failure, you have to get it right the first
time.

This difference may be why power-only pilots think glider pilots are
either 1. Stupid or 2. Extremely Skilled!

Kirk

On Mar 25, 10:26*am, Tony wrote:
On Mar 25, 12:15*pm, "vaughn" wrote:

"soartech" wrote in message

....

I think the solution is that every new power pilot should be required
to have 20 flights in gliders before even stepping into a plane with
an engine.

I have a lot more time in gliders than in airplanes, but I wouldn't brag too
much in advance about my likelihood of making a safe power-off emergency landing
in an airplane. *Flying a 7 to 1 airplane with little or no glide path control
takes a somewhat different skill set than doing the same with a 30 to 1 glider
with good spoilers.and (likely) a lower approach speed.

Hi Gang
Having landed out in a Lanair ES after a fire and engine out in a
tiny field on the western slope of the Sierras where trees dominated
the scenery and surviving I believe my gliding experience greatly
enhanced my survivability. With a glider at all times one has a
bailout site in mind and each landing must be correct. No going around
for a second chance. I sense that most power plane only pilots do not
put the emphasis that we glider pilots do of mentally planning a
landing. Too low push the throttle forward. Too high a go around.
Check out the NTSB accident reports on missed landings. I am certain
that for about 50% of the missed landings if an experienced glider
pilot had been PIC the outcomes would have been different. I really
think my own incident with the Lancair would have been very different
and tragic without my glider experience.
Dave


...

I think the solution is that every new power pilot should be required
to have 20 flights in gliders before even stepping into a plane with
an engine.


Vaughn

this.

all my power flying friends seem to think i don't have any reason to
sweat an engine failure in an airplane now since i have glider
experience. *not so. *having an engine failure at 500 ft in an
airplane and ending up with a successful landing is something to be
proud of, I think. *You have, at best, 60 seconds to make all the
right decisions from that altitude. *You'll probably spend at least
1/3 of that time realizing what went wrong and then recovering from
the mistakes you made during that realization period. *then you have
(at best) 40 seconds to determine a course of action and execute.
I'll take a real glider any day.

On Mar 25, 11:26*am, Tony wrote:
On Mar 25, 12:15*pm, "vaughn" wrote:

"soartech" wrote in message

....

I think the solution is that every new power pilot should be required
to have 20 flights in gliders before even stepping into a plane with
an engine.

I have a lot more time in gliders than in airplanes, but I wouldn't brag too
much in advance about my likelihood of making a safe power-off emergency landing
in an airplane. *Flying a 7 to 1 airplane with little or no glide path control
takes a somewhat different skill set than doing the same with a 30 to 1 glider
with good spoilers.and (likely) a lower approach speed.

Vaughn

this.

all my power flying friends seem to think i don't have any reason to
sweat an engine failure in an airplane now since i have glider
experience. *not so. *having an engine failure at 500 ft in an
airplane and ending up with a successful landing is something to be
proud of, I think. *You have, at best, 60 seconds to make all the
right decisions from that altitude. *You'll probably spend at least
1/3 of that time realizing what went wrong and then recovering from
the mistakes you made during that realization period. *then you have
(at best) 40 seconds to determine a course of action and execute.
I'll take a real glider any day.

Been there, done that. Tony has it about right for time and restart
sequence. In my case the commonly taught remedy of full rich was not
only wrong, but absolutely opposite of what could have been the way to
get it going again. After the initial reduction in throttle the engine
flooded and I didn't know it until I needed a bit. The carb float had
sunk and full rich, change tanks, fiddle with mags, were worthless.
Landed short, no damage, got out, gas running out the size of my
finger. Pulled plane up on road, towed it back to the airport via car
with me in plane. An AD came out not long thereafter, saying to
replace those nasty sinking metal floats with composite floats. Some
years later another AD note, to replace those nasty composite floats
with metal floats because the floats sink. Had more than a couple of
other engine "anomalies" during quite a few years. The common
denominator is that NONE played by the usual fixit procedures.