Germany Lost the War... So What?

"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
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"robert arndt" wrote in message
m...
The US postwar history:


Facts arent your strong point are they ?

Korea: stalemate

South Korea was saved from the invading forces of the DPRK
and now a prosperous democracy and ally. Meanwhile the
DPRK moulders in a prison of its own making.

We're talking war and power here. The Chinese human waves forced us
back until we eventually reached the starting point- the 38th
parallel.

Which was not the "starting point" for US forces--our troops did not enter
the fray until after the DPRK offensive was already steamrolling its way
down the Peninsula. In the end we maintained the ROK's border--sounds like a
win to me.

MacArthur could have defeated them in 1950 if he was allowed
to bomb the Yalu River bridges but was overruled by Washington.

Bull****. The PLA was quite capable of using improvised bridging (and did do
so).

Later,
he was sacked. Big mistake.

Actually, no, it was one of Truman's better moves. Dougie and his intel
weenies had ignored repeated indications of the intent of the PLA to enter
the conflict, and continued to press forward beyond their support capability
anyway--and his subordinate commanders (Almond, Smith, etc.) were none too
comfortable with the situation.


Cuban Missile Crisis: stalemate

Nope, the Soviet missiles were withdrawn as the US demanded.

Remember the failed "Bay of Pigs" and Washington's agreement with
Moscow to remove US missiles out of Turkey months later?

You mean the missiles we ahd already planned to remove in rather short
order? You ever notice that the Thors that we and the Brits had under joint
control in the UK were also removed a year or so later (and they were not
part of the deal)? Wonder why?

snip


Then there's the little matter of the fall of communism, the
dissolution of the Warsaw Pact and the collapse of the USSR

Which is more due to Soviet citizens standing in line for bread 8 hrs
a day and the forever unattainable 5 year plans they made... not to
mention devoting almost all their resources to defense and the
corruption of the Communist Party elite. Then there was also the KGB
terror and its informer network. The fall was inevitable and without
the USSR the Warsaw Pact was nothing.

And why were those citizens having to stand in line? Why were they not
instead eating French bread and drinking (West) German wine? Becuase the US
and its NATO allies kept them out of Western Europe, and then engaged them
in a nifty little "spending war" that broke their feeble bank. Yup, that's a
win.



Gulf War I: had to raise a coalition to fight another Third World
nation, didn't finish the job which leads to Gulf War II. Kurds and
population suffer as a result.

The war aims of expelling Iraq from Kuwait were achieved

After the nation was brutally raped, robbed, murdered, and
ecologically polluted.

Kind of hard to stop the initial attack without our having forces on the
ground in the region, huh? But as Keith noted, in the end we kicked him back
into his own territory, so...another win.

Saddam, meanwhile, was untouched and building
more palaces...

But his air force and army were sure as hell not "untouched". Made things
quite a bit easier when we went in for round two.


The Balkans: another attack on an unworthy adversary. Serbs leave with
their armor and military/police units intact. International force
needed.

The war aims of protecting the Kosovans from Serbian ethnic cleansing
were achieved

Oh please, too little too late. Serb soldiers insulted International
forces as they left Kosovo and threatened ethnic minorities right in
front the peacekeepers.

Threats they have not been able to carry out. And wouldn't you know it,
Milosevich is out of power, and the current Yugo Serb government is trying
to rebuild relations, right?


Terrorist attack on the USS Cole: failed

Quite so, the ship was repaired and re-entered service

A US Naval warship which should have been adequately protected. Taken
out by a raft of explosives.

Hey, it happens. What your point to this would be is beyond me--it is not as
if, for example, we let bad guys into the Olympic Games to cause all sorts
of mayhem and murder...


9/11: could prevent terrorist attack, 3000 fatalities

Biggest disaster of them off and no comment? US the invincible brought
to agony by a few jet liners of terrorists?

What is there to comment about? It happened--slimy terrorists murdered a lot
of innocent people. Unfortunately, it will not be the last time terrorists
murder people, and no nation on earth can assure the complete safety of its
citizens. The more amazing fact is that someone like you is too dimwitted to
realize that.



Afghanistan: attack on another unworthy adversary. Taliban and Osama
escape into Pakistan. International force needed again. Failure.

Success , Afghanistan is no longer a safe haven for terrorist groups

Are you insane? Try going there and leaving Kabul. The rest of the
nation is in the hands of warlords who shelter terrorists and hate the
US. My buddy is over there right now. He says its the same dirt
******** as ever.

Firstly, one wonders if you actually have any buddies; if you do, it is
likely only because the poor jerk has never read the crap you post in this
NG. Secondly, the fact of the matter is that AQ can not consider Afghanistan
as free parking any longer...not to mention that since we went in there we
have managed to derail subsequent AQ efforts. Much better to keep the little
devils on the run and looking back over their shoulders as opposed to
allowing them free reign to develop their nasty little plots.


Iraq prewar: Fires at US aircraft for 7 years, US retaliates in 1998,
Iraq resumes firing at US aircraft for 4 more years
Gulf War II: US goes it alone, captures Saddam but cannot get real
reconstruction support or troops needed to finish the job due to
isolating UN and certain European nations- failure


The British troops who took Southern Iraq and Basra tend to disagree
about the going it alone bit.

Oh thank God for British token forces

"Token forces"? You must not have ever read the ORBAT, huh?

whose own weapons and gear are
****.

That would be "combat proven ****" to you, mister. Which is more than can be
said for the equipment produced by your favorite nation, huh?

I assume you're British, so don't you read your own papers for
God-save-the-Queen sakes!!! All you guys did was sit in the rear and
deliver humanitarian aid while the US drove downtown to Baghdad.

No, they also took Basra, and their SOF operators ranged throughout the
country, at least according to what Newsweek published.


Wow, how underwhelming it all is. We seem to be able to pound into
submission any puny Third World nation without a significant AF.

Iraq started GW1 with the 4th largest army in the world and
a large AF and air defence system, of course when it was over ....

4th largest army stat doesn't mean ****. They were pathetic fighting
soldiers. The Hitler Youth could have taken them out!!!

Ah! Sieg Heil! Your true colors show once again, you pathetic little Nazi
sycophant/miscreant.


But
we don't dare strike

What is this "we" ****, Kimosabe? You got a turd in your pocket? You make it
amply clear that you don't care for the US and much prefer the "good ol'
days" when hobnailed boots rang out in the kasernes. Tell you what, if the
good folks of this NG got together and started a collection to pay for your
transportation back to Germany, would you take us up on it? Please? Of
course, it appears that the real Germans may not take you in with loving
arms, based upon some of the responses you have garnered from them...

Iran, N Korea, or China. In fact China openly
threatens the US over Taiwan and is militarily developing systems to
defeat our stealth, satellites, and to attack the US with missiles in
the future. Iran has threatened the US over its nuclear reactor and N
Korea has done the same over its nuclear program which we failed to
stop. BTW, try attacking the FSU even at its weakest... they have
twice the nukes we have and we all know the history of those that
invade Mother Russia. On their turf the US would lose, same in China.

The difference of course is the US knows that, your hero Adolf didnt.

On Russia maybe, but fighting with China in the future is inevitable.

So I don't care how many time you say Germany lost. Germany is the
size of 1 US state and took on the world. It took everyone with
everything to beat them.

Germany had a larger population than any 10 states combined
and controlled the combined industries of western europe
and couldnt even beat Britain.

I could only wish that the political decision to change direction
eastward would have never come and Sea Lion would have happened. What
would have Britain defended itself with then- the Home Guard with
pitch forks and shotguns? You should thank God a lone German bomber
ditched its bombs on London and saved your nation. Germany could have
kept fighting and by the winter of 1940 you would have ran out of
pilots and planes- had the Germans not diverted to civilian targets
like London.

To your neverending lament, all of this is but a pipedream conjured up in
your feeble little Nazi loving mind. Normally using the N-word is an automat
ic argument loser in these environs--but in your case, given your obvious
(and repeated) demonstrations of admiration and dedication to the cause, it
is about the only descriptor applicable.

Brooks


Keith

Keep dreaming on,
Rob