tow rope brake practice crash, what can we learn...

Looking at all 2011 accidents reported thus far, a good portion
involved pilots with little apparent time in model or particular
glider. *I'm just sayin'.

Frank Whiteley

Frank Whiteley[/i][/color]

The rest of the story
http://www.thebaynet.com/news/index....story_ID/23254[/quote]

Well, after having read the "rest of the story" it is obvious that this was a major misinterpretation of the tow pilots rudder waggle by BOTH pilots. The "copilot" shouts "release, release, release," and the "pilot" fails to properly interpret the rudder wag and releases.

We all make mistakes, unfortunately some of our mistakes can be fatal. We must all continually update our knowledge of emergency signals and procedures to help reduce these kinds of accidents. JMHO.

Walt

On Jul 21, 2:34*pm, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.
wrote:
Looking at all 2011 accidents reported thus far, a good portion
involved pilots with little apparent time in model or particular
glider. *I'm just sayin'.

Frank Whiteley

Frank Whiteley

The rest of the storyhttp://www.thebaynet.com/news/index.cfm/fa/viewstory/story_ID/23254

Well, after having read the "rest of the story" it is obvious that this
was a major misinterpretation of the tow pilots rudder waggle by BOTH
pilots. *The "copilot" shouts "release, release, release," and the "pilot"
fails to properly interpret the rudder wag and releases. *

We all make mistakes, unfortunately some of our mistakes can be fatal. *We
must all continually update our knowledge of emergency signals and
procedures to help reduce these kinds of accidents. *JMHO.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly[/i][/color]

How many more pilots need to die until the rudder waggle will be
replaced with something more sensible, like a radio call?? No radio,
no tow! and if it is absolutely necessary to waggle the rudder, it
should be delayed until the glider is high enough to land safely!
Obviously the NTSB is not going to do anything about it, it is up to
us, SSA, SSF or whoever the force may be to do something about it!

Sigh!

Ramy

Originally Posted by Ramy

On Jul 21, 2:34*pm, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.
wrote:
Looking at all 2011 accidents reported thus far, a good portion
involved pilots with little apparent time in model or particular
glider. *I'm just sayin'.

Frank Whiteley

Frank Whiteley

The rest of the storyhttp://www.thebaynet.com/news/index.cfm/fa/viewstory/story_ID/23254

Well, after having read the "rest of the story" it is obvious that this
was a major misinterpretation of the tow pilots rudder waggle by BOTH
pilots. *The "copilot" shouts "release, release, release," and the "pilot"
fails to properly interpret the rudder wag and releases. *

We all make mistakes, unfortunately some of our mistakes can be fatal. *We
must all continually update our knowledge of emergency signals and
procedures to help reduce these kinds of accidents. *JMHO.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly[/i][/color]

How many more pilots need to die until the rudder waggle will be
replaced with something more sensible, like a radio call?? No radio,
no tow! and if it is absolutely necessary to waggle the rudder, it
should be delayed until the glider is high enough to land safely!
Obviously the NTSB is not going to do anything about it, it is up to
us, SSA, SSF or whoever the force may be to do something about it!

Sigh!

Ramy

Nothing is perfect, the radio is a good idea, I carry a hand held in a rental ship without a radio. Always do a radio check with the tow plane prior to tow. That being said, it's up to the pilot to carry a radio or not. The signals from the tow plane need to be constantly studied and understood. Human nature being what it is, complacency becomes our enemy and ultimately our undoing. Much of our safety is in our own hands, checklists, understanding signals, use of a radio, remaining proficient. JMHO.

Walt

In this case the pair were still climbing, though slowly, but what if they
couldn't climb out of ground effect?

There's no substitute for knowledge, skill, and preparation. Please don't
try to legislate safety with more rules.


"Ramy" wrote in message
...
On Jul 21, 2:34 pm, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.
wrote:
Looking at all 2011 accidents reported thus far, a good portion
involved pilots with little apparent time in model or particular
glider. *I'm just sayin'.

Frank Whiteley

Frank Whiteley

The rest of the
storyhttp://www.thebaynet.com/news/index.cfm/fa/viewstory/story_ID/23254

Well, after having read the "rest of the story" it is obvious that this
was a major misinterpretation of the tow pilots rudder waggle by BOTH
pilots. The "copilot" shouts "release, release, release," and the "pilot"
fails to properly interpret the rudder wag and releases.

We all make mistakes, unfortunately some of our mistakes can be fatal. We
must all continually update our knowledge of emergency signals and
procedures to help reduce these kinds of accidents. JMHO.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly[/i][/color]

How many more pilots need to die until the rudder waggle will be
replaced with something more sensible, like a radio call?? No radio,
no tow! and if it is absolutely necessary to waggle the rudder, it
should be delayed until the glider is high enough to land safely!
Obviously the NTSB is not going to do anything about it, it is up to
us, SSA, SSF or whoever the force may be to do something about it!

Sigh!

Ramy

One hour or a thousand in type - it doesn't make a bit of difference to the
pilot's required knowledge of signals!. That's just making excuses for
poorly trained pilots (and CFIGs)...


"Walt Connelly" wrote in message
...

Looking at all 2011 accidents reported thus far, a good portion
involved pilots with little apparent time in model or particular
glider. *I'm just sayin'.

Frank Whiteley

Frank Whiteley

The rest of the story
http://www.thebaynet.com/news/index....story_ID/23254

Well, after having read the "rest of the story" it is obvious that this
was a major misinterpretation of the tow pilots rudder waggle by BOTH
pilots. The "copilot" shouts "release, release, release," and the "pilot"
fails to properly interpret the rudder wag and releases.

We all make mistakes, unfortunately some of our mistakes can be fatal. We
must all continually update our knowledge of emergency signals and
procedures to help reduce these kinds of accidents. JMHO.

Walt




--
Walt Connelly [/i][/color]

On Jul 22, 6:44*am, "Dan Marotta" wrote:
One hour or a thousand in type - it doesn't make a bit of difference to the
pilot's required knowledge of signals!. *That's just making excuses for
poorly trained pilots (and CFIGs)...

"Walt Connelly" wrote in message

...





Looking at all 2011 accidents reported thus far, a good portion
involved pilots with little apparent time in model or particular
glider. *I'm just sayin'.

Frank Whiteley

Frank Whiteley

The rest of the story
http://www.thebaynet.com/news/index....story_ID/23254

Well, after having read the "rest of the story" it is obvious that this
was a major misinterpretation of the tow pilots rudder waggle by BOTH
pilots. *The "copilot" shouts "release, release, release," and the "pilot"
fails to properly interpret the rudder wag and releases.

We all make mistakes, unfortunately some of our mistakes can be fatal. *We
must all continually update our knowledge of emergency signals and
procedures to help reduce these kinds of accidents. *JMHO.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -[/i][/color]

Folks, the problem is not just lack of knowledge or practice, it is
the human nature of confusion and tunnel vision under stress! Imagine
you are on tow and barely climbing (since your spoilers are out),
your first thought is that something is wrong with the tow plane, and
once you see the tow pilot waggle the rudder (which may also cause the
wings to rock a little), I bet over 90% of pilots will release, even
if they just practiced this manuver a week ago. There are many
examples confirming this, luckily not all of them resulted in
accidents.
Bottom line: Use radios! If this doesn't work, do not waggle rudders
until at safe altitude, unless the tow plane can not climb at all.

Ramy

"Ramy" wrote in message
...
On Jul 22, 6:44 am, "Dan Marotta" wrote:
One hour or a thousand in type - it doesn't make a bit of difference to
the
pilot's required knowledge of signals!. That's just making excuses for
poorly trained pilots (and CFIGs)...

"Walt Connelly" wrote in
message

...





Looking at all 2011 accidents reported thus far, a good portion
involved pilots with little apparent time in model or particular
glider. *I'm just sayin'.

Frank Whiteley

Frank Whiteley

The rest of the story
http://www.thebaynet.com/news/index....story_ID/23254

Well, after having read the "rest of the story" it is obvious that this
was a major misinterpretation of the tow pilots rudder waggle by BOTH
pilots. The "copilot" shouts "release, release, release," and the
"pilot"
fails to properly interpret the rudder wag and releases.

We all make mistakes, unfortunately some of our mistakes can be fatal.
We
must all continually update our knowledge of emergency signals and
procedures to help reduce these kinds of accidents. JMHO.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -[/i][/color]

Folks, the problem is not just lack of knowledge or practice, it is
the human nature of confusion and tunnel vision under stress! Imagine
you are on tow and barely climbing (since your spoilers are out),
your first thought is that something is wrong with the tow plane, and
once you see the tow pilot waggle the rudder (which may also cause the
wings to rock a little), I bet over 90% of pilots will release, even
if they just practiced this manuver a week ago. There are many
examples confirming this, luckily not all of them resulted in
accidents.
Bottom line: Use radios! If this doesn't work, do not waggle rudders
until at safe altitude, unless the tow plane can not climb at all.

Ramy

Wow! Don't you know that your spoilers are out? I must have only flown the
best gliders (or the worst) because it's always apparent to me that the
spoilers are open - noise, turbulence, handle out of detent, pitch
attitude...

On Jul 22, 5:40*pm, "Dan Marotta" wrote:
"Ramy" wrote in message

...
On Jul 22, 6:44 am, "Dan Marotta" wrote:





One hour or a thousand in type - it doesn't make a bit of difference to
the
pilot's required knowledge of signals!. That's just making excuses for
poorly trained pilots (and CFIGs)...

"Walt Connelly" wrote in
message

.. .

Looking at all 2011 accidents reported thus far, a good portion
involved pilots with little apparent time in model or particular
glider. *I'm just sayin'.

Frank Whiteley

Frank Whiteley

The rest of the story
http://www.thebaynet.com/news/index....story_ID/23254

Well, after having read the "rest of the story" it is obvious that this
was a major misinterpretation of the tow pilots rudder waggle by BOTH
pilots. The "copilot" shouts "release, release, release," and the
"pilot"
fails to properly interpret the rudder wag and releases.

We all make mistakes, unfortunately some of our mistakes can be fatal..
We
must all continually update our knowledge of emergency signals and
procedures to help reduce these kinds of accidents. JMHO.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Folks, the problem is not just lack of knowledge or practice, it is
the human nature of confusion and tunnel vision under stress! Imagine
you are on tow *and barely climbing (since your spoilers are out),
your first thought is that something is wrong with the tow plane, and
once you see the tow pilot waggle the rudder (which may also cause the
wings to rock a little), I bet over 90% of pilots will release, even
if they just practiced this manuver a week ago. There are many
examples confirming this, luckily not all of them resulted in
accidents.
Bottom line: Use radios! If this doesn't work, do not waggle rudders
until at safe altitude, unless the tow plane can not climb at all.

Ramy

Wow! *Don't you know that your spoilers are out? *I must have only flown the
best gliders (or the worst) because it's always apparent to me that the
spoilers are open - noise, turbulence, handle out of detent, pitch
attitude...[/i][/color]

Of course it is apparent when you open your spoilers. But apparently
it is not always apparent in emergency when the spoilers were either
left open or were sucked open. I know of experience pilots and
instructors who did not realize that the spoilers are open. Otherwise
we wouldn't have this discussion.

Ramy


Ramy

Agreed, no excuses for no knowing and having practiced the standard
signals. Nothing to do with time in model. IMVHO, 50 hours is needed
for most pilots to development an intimate adaption for the best
performance and subtle nuances and spiteful characteristics of a
particular glider.

On Jul 22, 7:44*am, "Dan Marotta" wrote:
One hour or a thousand in type - it doesn't make a bit of difference to the
pilot's required knowledge of signals!. *That's just making excuses for
poorly trained pilots (and CFIGs)...

"Walt Connelly" wrote in message

...









Looking at all 2011 accidents reported thus far, a good portion
involved pilots with little apparent time in model or particular
glider. *I'm just sayin'.

Frank Whiteley

Frank Whiteley

The rest of the story
http://www.thebaynet.com/news/index....story_ID/23254

Well, after having read the "rest of the story" it is obvious that this
was a major misinterpretation of the tow pilots rudder waggle by BOTH
pilots. *The "copilot" shouts "release, release, release," and the "pilot"
fails to properly interpret the rudder wag and releases.

We all make mistakes, unfortunately some of our mistakes can be fatal. *We
must all continually update our knowledge of emergency signals and
procedures to help reduce these kinds of accidents. *JMHO.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly[/i][/color]