If yiu didn't fight in WW II.....

ubject: If yiu didn't fight in WW II.....
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 2/27/04 7:21 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...


As Colin Powell said:

"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and
well-placed managed to wangle slots in the Army Reserve and National
Guard units... Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class
discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all
Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country."

You are such an insulting old ****, Art.

Without the Guard, you would be dead.


Colin Powell said it, Not me. I guess he is the insulting old ****. Right?



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
ubject: If yiu didn't fight in WW II.....
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 2/27/04 7:21 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...


As Colin Powell said:

"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and
well-placed managed to wangle slots in the Army Reserve and National
Guard units... Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class
discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all
Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country."

You are such an insulting old ****, Art.

Without the Guard, you would be dead.

Colin Powell said it, Not me. I guess he is the insulting old ****.
Right?

Powell was refering to JFK's war and LBJ's failure to call up the National
Guard.

Without the Guard, you would be dead, Art.

Art wrote:
Colin Powell said it, Not me. I guess he is the insulting old ****. Right?


Art, you have been asked to consider and clarify the time period that Powell
was talking about and you refuse to do so.
You are painting a couple of hundred years of the Militia with one broad stroke
(based on Powell's referal IIRC to a brief time frame of about 6 to 10 years).
The fact that some people (some not all) used the Guard as an avoidance of what
they considered an idiotic war is insulting to a lot of people who did their
job.
I wouldn't call you an insulting old f#*k, but at times you can be a
belligerent ass.
This time you are being a belligerent ass in the first degree.
And yes contacts help even in the advertizing business. You ever use any
influence? Ever call your Senator or Representative? Ever ask for a favor?
Next time I am going to ask for a clerk's job in MACV HQ or go for Club officer
at the local aerodrome.

Rick Clark
MFE

On 27 Feb 2004 16:30:35 GMT, (OXMORON1) wrote:

Art wrote:
Colin Powell said it, Not me. I guess he is the insulting old ****. Right?


Art, you have been asked to consider and clarify the time period that Powell
was talking about and you refuse to do so.
You are painting a couple of hundred years of the Militia with one broad stroke
(based on Powell's referal IIRC to a brief time frame of about 6 to 10 years).
The fact that some people (some not all) used the Guard as an avoidance of what
they considered an idiotic war is insulting to a lot of people who did their
job.
I wouldn't call you an insulting old f#*k, but at times you can be a
belligerent ass.
This time you are being a belligerent ass in the first degree.
And yes contacts help even in the advertizing business. You ever use any
influence? Ever call your Senator or Representative? Ever ask for a favor?
Next time I am going to ask for a clerk's job in MACV HQ or go for Club officer
at the local aerodrome.

My last day on active duty at Ft. Knox in 1984, I was walking out of
the US Army Armor and Engineer Board, on the way to drive to the
Officer's Club for a last drink with a friend. An old guy and his
wife (he thought I was an EM because he didn't recognize subdued
insignia) asked me to take a picture of him in front of a static
monument armored vehicle. It turned out that he'd been in the
Philippines in December 1941 in a National Guard tank batallion.
Really nice old guy, and pretty cheerful for somebody who survived the
Bataan Death March....

--
More blood for oil... in my name!

My last day on active duty at Ft. Knox in 1984, I was walking out of
the US Army Armor and Engineer Board, on the way to drive to the
Officer's Club for a last drink with a friend. An old guy and his
wife (he thought I was an EM because he didn't recognize subdued
insignia) asked me to take a picture of him in front of a static
monument armored vehicle. It turned out that he'd been in the
Philippines in December 1941 in a National Guard tank batallion.
Really nice old guy, and pretty cheerful for somebody who survived the
Bataan Death March....


There were many from here in New Mexico that were at Bataan. NM had a large
number of people there, because of the guard units that were sent there.

A big uproar happened a couple years ago, when some leftist hippy peace group
wanted to put a memorial up in Santa Fe for the Japanese, and the Bataan
survivors were none too happy about that. I do not think the memorial ended up
being built.

There is also a yearly march 26 mile march at White sands, that thousands are
in, occasionally in the past including some of the survivors, to commemorate
the Bataan March. I think two years, one of the survivors was going to be in
it, and march in his WW2 army uniform. He passed away while sleeping, hours
before the march, his uniform next to him and ready to be worn.




Ron
Tanker 65, C-54E (DC-4)

On 28 Feb 2004 18:21:41 GMT, 362436 (Ron) wrote:

My last day on active duty at Ft. Knox in 1984, I was walking out of
the US Army Armor and Engineer Board, on the way to drive to the
Officer's Club for a last drink with a friend. An old guy and his
wife (he thought I was an EM because he didn't recognize subdued
insignia) asked me to take a picture of him in front of a static
monument armored vehicle. It turned out that he'd been in the
Philippines in December 1941 in a National Guard tank batallion.
Really nice old guy, and pretty cheerful for somebody who survived the
Bataan Death March....


There were many from here in New Mexico that were at Bataan. NM had a large
number of people there, because of the guard units that were sent there.

There were contingents from west-central Ohio too. If I'm not
mistaken, the drill hall on the Camp Perry training facility (where
the National Shooting Matches are held) is called the Bataan hall. I
think some of the tankers came from Port Clinton, and or Fremont.

Also, if you've read Heinlein's "Starship Troopers", the troopship the
"Roger Young" is named after an Ohio guardsman, who was killed on New
Guinea(?). If I remember correctly, the guard armory in Fremont is
named after him.

A big uproar happened a couple years ago, when some leftist hippy peace group
wanted to put a memorial up in Santa Fe for the Japanese, and the Bataan
survivors were none too happy about that. I do not think the memorial ended up
being built.

There's always somebody who'd rather honor Charlie Manson than Sharon
Tate.



--
More blood for oil... in my name!

In article ,
on Sat, 28 Feb 2004 14:15:35 -0500,
Christopher Morton attempted to say .....

Also, if you've read Heinlein's "Starship Troopers", the troopship the
"Roger Young" is named after an Ohio guardsman, who was killed on New
Guinea(?).



Young, Rodger W., Private, 48th Infantry, 37th Infantry Division (Ohio
Buckeyes: born Tiffin Ohio, 28 April 1918; died 31 July 1943, on the
island New Georgia, Solomons, South Pacific, while singlewandedly
attacking and destroying an enemy machine-gun pillbox. His platoon had
been pinned down by intense fire from this pillbox: Private Young was
wounded in the first burst. He crawled toward the pillbox, was wounded a
second time but continued to advance, firing his rifle as he did so. He
closed on the pillbox, attacked and destroyed it with hand grenades, but
in so doing he was wounded a third time and killed. His bold and gallant
action in the face of overwhelming odds enabled his teammates to escape
without loss; he was awarded posthumously the Medal of Honor.




--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

Christopher Morton wrote in message . ..


There were contingents from west-central Ohio too. If I'm not
mistaken, the drill hall on the Camp Perry training facility (where
the National Shooting Matches are held) is called the Bataan hall. I
think some of the tankers came from Port Clinton, and or Fremont.

There should be a Stuart somewhere around there as well. I think its
one of the early ones held together with rivits. I was the drum major
of the band that played for the dedication ceremony (National Guard
Band.... I'm a slacker and a musician!!!). When you think of the
people going to war in those death traps with those 37mm popguns....
" We are the battling *******s of Bataan... No mama.. No papa... No
Uncle Sam... and nobody gives a damn"....

Walt

31 years of guard service and counting.... after serving in a war
where you had the pleasure of having dog **** thrown at you for coming
home...

In article , Walt Appel says...

Christopher Morton wrote in message
...


There were contingents from west-central Ohio too. If I'm not
mistaken, the drill hall on the Camp Perry training facility (where
the National Shooting Matches are held) is called the Bataan hall. I
think some of the tankers came from Port Clinton, and or Fremont.

There should be a Stuart somewhere around there as well. I think its
one of the early ones held together with rivits. I was the drum major
of the band that played for the dedication ceremony (National Guard
Band.... I'm a slacker and a musician!!!). When you think of the
people going to war in those death traps with those 37mm popguns....
" We are the battling *******s of Bataan... No mama.. No papa... No
Uncle Sam... and nobody gives a damn"....

The guy that I talked to said that they kicked the Japanese tankers' asses
everywhere they met them, until they ran out of gas and ammo. He said what
really hurt them was that they had only AP-shot for AT. He thought that if
they'd had AP-shell, they'd have totally routed them.

The Stuart, is if I remember correctly, behind the covered pistol range, near
the French WWI railroad car display.


--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.

From: 362436 (Ron)
snip

A big uproar happened a couple years ago, when some leftist hippy peace group
wanted to put a memorial up in Santa Fe for the Japanese, and the Bataan
survivors were none too happy about that.
snip


Ron
Tanker 65, C-54E (DC-4)

Why would anyone want to build a Japanese memorial there? I can see a monument
to the Japanese internees, but a memorial?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired