B-17s straffing & IJN Aoba, & UK POWs

On Apr 3, 1:18*am, Bill Shatzer wrote:
wrote:
So, by then, the B-17 crews had figured out that high altitude level
bombing of moving ships wasn't working out very well?

Did anyone ever try equipping the B-17 with torpedoes?

Well, sorta.

http://tinyurl.com/7sr3lmu

Thank you! If this was 1940 than this stuff is huge! It's huge either
way, but wow!

On 03/04/2012 17:49, David E. Powell wrote:
On Apr 3, 1:18 am, Bill wrote:
wrote:
So, by then, the B-17 crews had figured out that high altitude level
bombing of moving ships wasn't working out very well?

Did anyone ever try equipping the B-17 with torpedoes?

Well, sorta.

http://tinyurl.com/7sr3lmu

Thank you! If this was 1940 than this stuff is huge! It's huge either
way, but wow!

The GT-1 does not seem to have been tested until 1943, so the caption
has to be wrong. The British Toraplane, a similar air launched gliding
torpedo was around in 1940*, but, of course, that would not have been
launched from a B-17.

* Work started in 1939 but was abandoned in 1942, as it proved to be
very inaccurate.

Colin Bignell

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 03/04/2012 17:49, David E. Powell wrote:
On Apr 3, 1:18 am, Bill wrote:
wrote:
So, by then, the B-17 crews had figured out that high altitude
level
bombing of moving ships wasn't working out very well?

Did anyone ever try equipping the B-17 with torpedoes?

Well, sorta.

http://tinyurl.com/7sr3lmu

Thank you! If this was 1940 than this stuff is huge! It's huge
either
way, but wow!

The GT-1 does not seem to have been tested until 1943, so the
caption has to be wrong. The British Toraplane, a similar air
launched gliding torpedo was around in 1940*, but, of course, that
would not have been launched from a B-17.

* Work started in 1939 but was abandoned in 1942, as it proved to be
very inaccurate.

Colin Bignell

A field-expedient PBY torpedo attack from Guadalcanal:
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/cactus/jackcram.htm

jsw

On Apr 6, 2:37*am, "Jim Wilkins" wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message

...









On 03/04/2012 17:49, David E. Powell wrote:
On Apr 3, 1:18 am, Bill *wrote:
wrote:
So, by then, the B-17 crews had figured out that high altitude
level
bombing of moving ships wasn't working out very well?

Did anyone ever try equipping the B-17 with torpedoes?

Well, sorta.

http://tinyurl.com/7sr3lmu

Thank you! If this was 1940 than this stuff is huge! It's huge
either
way, but wow!

The GT-1 does not seem to have been tested until 1943, so the
caption has to be wrong. The British Toraplane, a similar air
launched gliding torpedo was around in 1940*, but, of course, that
would not have been launched from a B-17.

* Work started in 1939 but was abandoned in 1942, as it proved to be
very inaccurate.

Colin Bignell

A field-expedient PBY torpedo attack from Guadalcanal:http://www.daveswarbirds.com/cactus/jackcram.htm

For decades, we had a docent taking tickets at our front desk that
kept a photo nearby of his "Black Cat" following a successful mission
- they were hit on their run and a shell carried away one of their
props, narrowly missing the cockpit as it careened on by with a roar.
Already committed, the pilot got his bombs off and accounted for a
troop ship with his single-engine Catalina. Just a little reminder
that men that go to war in elegant, pedestrian seaplanes are just a
little different than most.

-"Gordon" wrote
-For decades, we had a docent taking tickets at our front desk that
-kept a photo nearby of his "Black Cat" following a successful mission
-- they were hit on their run and a shell carried away one of their
-props, narrowly missing the cockpit as it careened on by with a roar.
-Already committed, the pilot got his bombs off and accounted for a
-troop ship with his single-engine Catalina. Just a little reminder
-that men that go to war in elegant, pedestrian seaplanes are just a
-little different than most.

I'm impressed that they patrolled for reported (MAGIC) enemy carriers,
trusting their lives to their ability to hide from the CAP in whatever
clouds they might find.

jsw

On Apr 6, 9:50*am, "Jim Wilkins" wrote:
-"Gordon" wrote
-For decades, we had a docent taking tickets at our front desk that
-kept a photo nearby of his "Black Cat" following a successful mission
-- they were hit on their run and a shell carried away one of their
-props, narrowly missing the cockpit as it careened on by with a roar.
-Already committed, the pilot got his bombs off and accounted for a
-troop ship with his single-engine Catalina. *Just a little reminder
-that men that go to war in elegant, pedestrian seaplanes are just a
-little different than most.

I'm impressed that they patrolled for reported (MAGIC) enemy carriers,
trusting their lives to their ability to hide from the CAP in whatever
clouds they might find.

"This is Strawberry Five. Have sighted enemy fleet. Please notify
next of kin."

almost as classic as, "Peccavi."

Gordon wrote in news:26c83642-7103-45c5-a0dc-
:

On Apr 6, 9:50*am, "Jim Wilkins" wrote:
-"Gordon" wrote
-For decades, we had a docent taking tickets at our front desk that
-kept a photo nearby of his "Black Cat" following a successful mission
-- they were hit on their run and a shell carried away one of their
-props, narrowly missing the cockpit as it careened on by with a roar.
-Already committed, the pilot got his bombs off and accounted for a
-troop ship with his single-engine Catalina. *Just a little reminder
-that men that go to war in elegant, pedestrian seaplanes are just a
-little different than most.

I'm impressed that they patrolled for reported (MAGIC) enemy carriers,
trusting their lives to their ability to hide from the CAP in whatever
clouds they might find.

"This is Strawberry Five. Have sighted enemy fleet. Please notify
next of kin."

almost as classic as, "Peccavi."

Which is apparently what a teenage girl thought Napier ought
to have said. Peccavi being a Latin announcemnet of the capture
of Sindh in what is now Pakistan. Translates as "I have sinned".

But I digress.

Leonard Birchall certainly had a Strawberry Five experience.

IBM

Il 06/04/2012 19:59, Gordon ha scritto:

I'm impressed that they patrolled for reported (MAGIC) enemy carriers,
trusting their lives to their ability to hide from the CAP in whatever
clouds they might find.

"This is Strawberry Five. Have sighted enemy fleet. Please notify
next of kin."

almost as classic as, "Peccavi."

well, in the Med was admitted the use (and sacrifice) of the air recon
for covering ULTRA, but OTOH, intel decrypt can't pinpoint an enemy
formation, and in many cases cant' notify in time, if even possible,
sudden changes in enemy plans; Med example again, in many case Italians
cancels or delay convoys, and I guess that from the Maltese logistics's
perspective is much better a recon a/c on empty sea than an torpedo
bomber squadron and fighter escort on empty sea...

Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.

[truly extraneous X-post removed with the utmost prejudice]

On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 12:50:36 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote:

-"Gordon" wrote -For decades, we had a docent
taking tickets at our front desk that -kept a photo nearby of his "Black
Cat" following a successful mission -- they were hit on their run and a
shell carried away one of their -props, narrowly missing the cockpit as
it careened on by with a roar. -Already committed, the pilot got his
bombs off and accounted for a -troop ship with his single-engine
Catalina. Just a little reminder -that men that go to war in elegant,
pedestrian seaplanes are just a -little different than most.

I'm impressed that they patrolled for reported (MAGIC) enemy carriers,
trusting their lives to their ability to hide from the CAP in whatever
clouds they might find.

The PBY is an amazing beast - I've never been inside one, but I've seen
a couple of them fly.
It's a big airplane - it bulks out about the same as a B-17, with half
as many engines.
It kinda reminds me of a giant Aluminum seagull - optimized to get
the most distance out of a drop of fuel.

The guys that flew them were definitely a special breed - hours upon hours
of searching empty ocean, then instant adrenaline if/when they found something.

--
Pete Stickney
Failure is not an option
It comes bundled with the system

On 4/6/2012 10:24 PM, Peter Stickney wrote:
The PBY is an amazing beast - I've never been inside one, but I've seen
a couple of them fly.


If you ever get the chance to go to Pensacola NAS the museum has a
cutaway Catalina fuselage. They may look big on the outside, but they
are crowded inside. Take a look at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/shutter...09/4728119350/

If I wanted to make a comparison to B-17, it is cramped inside in
some places and open in other. To give you an idea stroll inside a B-17
from cockpit to aft crew door. The bracing for the bomb bay cat walk
makes one walk sideways even when bombs aren't present. I must admit I
had a bit of a belly last time I did that and it was a tight squeeze.
The waist, nose, cockpit and radio sections of B-17 are fairly roomy.
There are spaces and restrictions in the PBY. The engineer's feet block
the top foot or so of the cockpit door. If you want to open the blisters
you do so on your knees. Neither was built for luxury, but both had
character.

Plan on taking a full day at the museum if you go. The displays are
jammed together so photography can be a bit tricky.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired