Contest Insurance Grumblings

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 4:53:14 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
OK, just had to post: Is anyone else here really annoyed at the SSA's
insurance requirement "changes" for this year?

I had an unpleasant experience with Costello when I bought my first
sailplane (2007). I was very satisfied with my move to Avemco for the
last 4 years. They've provided me with comparable rates & coverage,
flexible payment plans, and helpful, friendly staff. Unfortunately,
they cannot comply with the revised/clarified requirements for soaring
contest liability insurance.

In fact, it seems that only one carrier out there words their policy
in a way that the SSA approves of: Costello.

I know that Costello has a positive relationship with the SSA and
witnessed the nice check they handed over to the SSA at the Reno
convention. But setting up a de-facto monopoly just rubs me the wrong
way... Shouldn't private companies be competing to do business with
us, as a group of several-hundred customers (who are likely to have
good income and be a relatively low risk of defaulting on our
payments)?

The "disputed" issue is a little bit of extra coverage for bystanders
(or other pilots in a midair). Does that actually help defuse any
ridiculous litigation or civil suits or financial penalties, in the
wake of an accident? It certainly doesn't provide any special
indemnification for the SSA, so I highly doubt it has a practical
benefit in a legal/liability situation. Seems to me that the primary
benefit of this insurance requirement is that it guarantees Costello a
certain volume of business each year.

Annoyed that I'm being forced to change carriers,

--Noel



On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 4:53:14 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
OK, just had to post: Is anyone else here really annoyed at the SSA's
insurance requirement "changes" for this year?

I had an unpleasant experience with Costello when I bought my first
sailplane (2007). I was very satisfied with my move to Avemco for the
last 4 years. They've provided me with comparable rates & coverage,
flexible payment plans, and helpful, friendly staff. Unfortunately,
they cannot comply with the revised/clarified requirements for soaring
contest liability insurance.

In fact, it seems that only one carrier out there words their policy
in a way that the SSA approves of: Costello.

I know that Costello has a positive relationship with the SSA and
witnessed the nice check they handed over to the SSA at the Reno
convention. But setting up a de-facto monopoly just rubs me the wrong
way... Shouldn't private companies be competing to do business with
us, as a group of several-hundred customers (who are likely to have
good income and be a relatively low risk of defaulting on our
payments)?

The "disputed" issue is a little bit of extra coverage for bystanders
(or other pilots in a midair). Does that actually help defuse any
ridiculous litigation or civil suits or financial penalties, in the
wake of an accident? It certainly doesn't provide any special
indemnification for the SSA, so I highly doubt it has a practical
benefit in a legal/liability situation. Seems to me that the primary
benefit of this insurance requirement is that it guarantees Costello a
certain volume of business each year.

Annoyed that I'm being forced to change carriers,

--Noel



On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 4:53:14 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
OK, just had to post: Is anyone else here really annoyed at the SSA's
insurance requirement "changes" for this year?

I had an unpleasant experience with Costello when I bought my first
sailplane (2007). I was very satisfied with my move to Avemco for the
last 4 years. They've provided me with comparable rates & coverage,
flexible payment plans, and helpful, friendly staff. Unfortunately,
they cannot comply with the revised/clarified requirements for soaring
contest liability insurance.

In fact, it seems that only one carrier out there words their policy
in a way that the SSA approves of: Costello.

I know that Costello has a positive relationship with the SSA and
witnessed the nice check they handed over to the SSA at the Reno
convention. But setting up a de-facto monopoly just rubs me the wrong
way... Shouldn't private companies be competing to do business with
us, as a group of several-hundred customers (who are likely to have
good income and be a relatively low risk of defaulting on our
payments)?

The "disputed" issue is a little bit of extra coverage for bystanders
(or other pilots in a midair). Does that actually help defuse any
ridiculous litigation or civil suits or financial penalties, in the
wake of an accident? It certainly doesn't provide any special
indemnification for the SSA, so I highly doubt it has a practical
benefit in a legal/liability situation. Seems to me that the primary
benefit of this insurance requirement is that it guarantees Costello a
certain volume of business each year.

Annoyed that I'm being forced to change carriers,

--Noel



On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 4:53:14 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
OK, just had to post: Is anyone else here really annoyed at the SSA's
insurance requirement "changes" for this year?

I had an unpleasant experience with Costello when I bought my first
sailplane (2007). I was very satisfied with my move to Avemco for the
last 4 years. They've provided me with comparable rates & coverage,
flexible payment plans, and helpful, friendly staff. Unfortunately,
they cannot comply with the revised/clarified requirements for soaring
contest liability insurance.

In fact, it seems that only one carrier out there words their policy
in a way that the SSA approves of: Costello.

I know that Costello has a positive relationship with the SSA and
witnessed the nice check they handed over to the SSA at the Reno
convention. But setting up a de-facto monopoly just rubs me the wrong
way... Shouldn't private companies be competing to do business with
us, as a group of several-hundred customers (who are likely to have
good income and be a relatively low risk of defaulting on our
payments)?

The "disputed" issue is a little bit of extra coverage for bystanders
(or other pilots in a midair). Does that actually help defuse any
ridiculous litigation or civil suits or financial penalties, in the
wake of an accident? It certainly doesn't provide any special
indemnification for the SSA, so I highly doubt it has a practical
benefit in a legal/liability situation. Seems to me that the primary
benefit of this insurance requirement is that it guarantees Costello a
certain volume of business each year.

Annoyed that I'm being forced to change carriers,

--Noel



On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 4:53:14 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
OK, just had to post: Is anyone else here really annoyed at the SSA's
insurance requirement "changes" for this year?

I had an unpleasant experience with Costello when I bought my first
sailplane (2007). I was very satisfied with my move to Avemco for the
last 4 years. They've provided me with comparable rates & coverage,
flexible payment plans, and helpful, friendly staff. Unfortunately,
they cannot comply with the revised/clarified requirements for soaring
contest liability insurance.

In fact, it seems that only one carrier out there words their policy
in a way that the SSA approves of: Costello.

I know that Costello has a positive relationship with the SSA and
witnessed the nice check they handed over to the SSA at the Reno
convention. But setting up a de-facto monopoly just rubs me the wrong
way... Shouldn't private companies be competing to do business with
us, as a group of several-hundred customers (who are likely to have
good income and be a relatively low risk of defaulting on our
payments)?

The "disputed" issue is a little bit of extra coverage for bystanders
(or other pilots in a midair). Does that actually help defuse any
ridiculous litigation or civil suits or financial penalties, in the
wake of an accident? It certainly doesn't provide any special
indemnification for the SSA, so I highly doubt it has a practical
benefit in a legal/liability situation. Seems to me that the primary
benefit of this insurance requirement is that it guarantees Costello a
certain volume of business each year.

Annoyed that I'm being forced to change carriers,

--Noel



On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 4:53:14 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
OK, just had to post: Is anyone else here really annoyed at the SSA's
insurance requirement "changes" for this year?

I had an unpleasant experience with Costello when I bought my first
sailplane (2007). I was very satisfied with my move to Avemco for the
last 4 years. They've provided me with comparable rates & coverage,
flexible payment plans, and helpful, friendly staff. Unfortunately,
they cannot comply with the revised/clarified requirements for soaring
contest liability insurance.

In fact, it seems that only one carrier out there words their policy
in a way that the SSA approves of: Costello.

I know that Costello has a positive relationship with the SSA and
witnessed the nice check they handed over to the SSA at the Reno
convention. But setting up a de-facto monopoly just rubs me the wrong
way... Shouldn't private companies be competing to do business with
us, as a group of several-hundred customers (who are likely to have
good income and be a relatively low risk of defaulting on our
payments)?

The "disputed" issue is a little bit of extra coverage for bystanders
(or other pilots in a midair). Does that actually help defuse any
ridiculous litigation or civil suits or financial penalties, in the
wake of an accident? It certainly doesn't provide any special
indemnification for the SSA, so I highly doubt it has a practical
benefit in a legal/liability situation. Seems to me that the primary
benefit of this insurance requirement is that it guarantees Costello a
certain volume of business each year.

Annoyed that I'm being forced to change carriers,

--Noel

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 4:53:14 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:

From all the later posts, I'm not sure anyone saw my earlier post...here is the essence of it

I used LL John in Michigan for years and thought the service and rates were great ...better than AVEMCO or Costello

I had no reason to re-up this year so don't know how the SSA rule would play out with them. They write for USAIG and the guy to talk to there is John Gostinger

I would suggest that you call John Gostinger and discuss this...he was always great to deal with ..several guys at Caesar Creek Soaring Club used them for years


here is the web site

http://lljohns.com/

Jim

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 4:53:14 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
OK, just had to post: Is anyone else here really annoyed at the SSA's
insurance requirement "changes" for this year?

I had an unpleasant experience with Costello when I bought my first
sailplane (2007). I was very satisfied with my move to Avemco for the
last 4 years. They've provided me with comparable rates & coverage,
flexible payment plans, and helpful, friendly staff. Unfortunately,
they cannot comply with the revised/clarified requirements for soaring
contest liability insurance.

In fact, it seems that only one carrier out there words their policy
in a way that the SSA approves of: Costello.

I know that Costello has a positive relationship with the SSA and
witnessed the nice check they handed over to the SSA at the Reno
convention. But setting up a de-facto monopoly just rubs me the wrong
way... Shouldn't private companies be competing to do business with
us, as a group of several-hundred customers (who are likely to have
good income and be a relatively low risk of defaulting on our
payments)?

The "disputed" issue is a little bit of extra coverage for bystanders
(or other pilots in a midair). Does that actually help defuse any
ridiculous litigation or civil suits or financial penalties, in the
wake of an accident? It certainly doesn't provide any special
indemnification for the SSA, so I highly doubt it has a practical
benefit in a legal/liability situation. Seems to me that the primary
benefit of this insurance requirement is that it guarantees Costello a
certain volume of business each year.

Annoyed that I'm being forced to change carriers,

--Noel

In article
29480331.402.1333550179491.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yncd14,
Sean Fidler wrote:

To be perfectly honest, every time I talk to Costello (including yesterday)
it feels rude, short and uncomfortable. We have a number of pilots in our
area who currently use them. In addition I insure a contest and a large
hangar thru them. If you listened to the phone calls we have made with
fairly simple questions you would think that we were bill collectors instead
of paying customers of several years...it is frankly getting that bad. I am
strongly considering a change.

I am very disappointed in their general customer care, consistent poor
demeanor and very distinct lack of friendly-ness. This is not just I but a
number of others and we have all been discussing it recently. Nothing is
more important to me after spending 5k a year with someone (2 gliders,
hangar, contest). We should be treated like gold, not like a piece of
dog****.

Anyone else know what I am talking about?

Sean
F2

My experience with Costello has been different from yours.

Everyone I've ever spoken to at Costello has been way more than friendly
and service oriented. I used to speak with Sue Fassett nearly every
year. Has she left Costello? Sue was always great to deal with. First
time I met her in person, at an SSA convention, she saw my name badge
and said something like "Oh, you're Wallace, you fly a Libelle". I am
sure my local car insurance agent wouldn't remember what car I drive. An
example of the service I have received from Costello: I went to a
contest once without my insurance papers. Called Costello on a Saturday
not only did I get an actual person on the phone, they faxed my proof of
insurance to the contest site. They seemed happy to do it and were not
short or rude with me. I count that as good service.

I have had glider insurance with other companies in the past. Costello
has been as cheap or cheaper for me over the long term and they didn't
come up with strange rules like "We won't insure any glider pilot over
age 60" like I ran into with one company.

My experience with Costello has been different from yours.

Everyone I've ever spoken to at Costello has been way more than friendly
and service oriented. I used to speak with Sue Fassett nearly every
year. Has she left Costello? Sue was always great to deal with. First
time I met her in person, at an SSA convention, she saw my name badge
and said something like "Oh, you're Wallace, you fly a Libelle". I am
sure my local car insurance agent wouldn't remember what car I drive. An
example of the service I have received from Costello: I went to a
contest once without my insurance papers. Called Costello on a Saturday
not only did I get an actual person on the phone, they faxed my proof of
insurance to the contest site. They seemed happy to do it and were not
short or rude with me. I count that as good service.

I have had glider insurance with other companies in the past. Costello
has been as cheap or cheaper for me over the long term and they didn't
come up with strange rules like "We won't insure any glider pilot over
age 60" like I ran into with one company.

yes I talked to Sue yesterday. She was very friendly as we worked out what insurance I need for this season.

On Apr 4, 3:29*pm, Tony wrote:
My experience with Costello has been different from yours.

Everyone I've ever spoken to at Costello has been way more than friendly
and service oriented. I used to speak with Sue Fassett nearly every
year. Has she left Costello? Sue was always great to deal with. First
time I met her in person, at an SSA convention, she saw my name badge
and said something like "Oh, you're Wallace, you fly a Libelle". I am
sure my local car insurance agent wouldn't remember what car I drive. An
example of the service I have received from Costello: I went to a
contest once without my insurance papers. Called Costello on a Saturday
not only did I get an actual person on the phone, they faxed my proof of
insurance to the contest site. They seemed happy to do it and were not
short or rude with me. I count that as good service.

I have had glider insurance with other companies in the past. Costello
has been as cheap or cheaper for me over the long term and they didn't
come up with strange rules like "We won't insure any glider pilot over
age 60" like I ran into with one company.

yes I talked to Sue yesterday. She was very friendly as we worked out what insurance I need for this season.

Ll Johns ok for singles but issue with twins.

On 4/4/2012 7:36 AM, Sean Fidler wrote:
To be perfectly honest, every time I talk to Costello (including
yesterday) it feels rude, short and uncomfortable. We have a number
of pilots in our area who currently use them. In addition I insure a
contest and a large hangar thru them. If you listened to the phone
calls we have made with fairly simple questions you would think that
we were bill collectors instead of paying customers of several
years...it is frankly getting that bad. I am strongly considering a
change.

I am very disappointed in their general customer care, consistent
poor demeanor and very distinct lack of friendly-ness. This is not
just I but a number of others and we have all been discussing it
recently. Nothing is more important to me after spending 5k a year
with someone (2 gliders, hangar, contest). We should be treated like
gold, not like a piece of dog****.

Anyone else know what I am talking about?

No, not at all. I've been insured through them for decades. Do you treat
them like you do the Rules Committee?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

I'm very happy with Costello. Recently insured a power plane insured thru them as well as my glider. I recommend them.

Larry

On 4/4/2012 3:54 PM, noel.wade wrote:


To address some of the comments by others: I'm not trying to trash
Costello. But I found that Avemco gave me more flexible payment
options, could cover both my glider and the Experimental Sonex kit-
plane that I'm building,

Costello is very easy to work with, but I also discovered that other
routs may be better if you wish to be insured for both gliders and
airplanes.


Lastly: Anyone who thinks that an insurance policy protects them from
being sued in an accident is ludicrous.

The reality can be exactly the opposite. It's the deep pockets of the
insurance money that attracts lawsuit. Actual individuals are
notoriously difficult to collect huge judgements from, so lawyers
(working on contingency) won't take the risk.

Vaughn

All -

With a little help from Dave Nadler and Helen (a friendly rep at
Avemco), I have been able to resolve the insurance coverage issues and
stay with Avemco Insurance (important to me as they are also insuring
my kit-plane as I build it in my garage; and that insurance is part of
the financing deal I got on the kit).

For anyone else wanting to use/stay with Avemco and compete in SSA
contests, here is the crucial info:
1) You cannot compete in more than 2 contests a year (regional or
national, doesn't matter)
2) You must specifically ask for the policy changes (I gave them the
PDF detailing the coverage clarifications from the SSA website), and
mention that a couple of other glider pilots have recently gotten this
change approved as a special exemption.
3) You must be willing to pay a couple of extra dollars per month on
your premium (for me it adds up to about $60 total, on a 12 month
policy).

Beyond that, its a relatively simple change. Hope this info helps!

--Noel