Texas Tragedy Info?

On Monday, June 18, 2012 10:54:30 AM UTC-7, cuflyer wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 9:37:03 AM UTC-4, Linwood wrote:
Anyone have any knowledge of the three fatality glider crash in Texas?
Glider type? Situation?

Linwood

Kid on his mother's lap - ? Affecting control - ?
This is really ugly.

1FL

It was indeed the freaking tail dolly!!!
http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2012...gation/#5891-7

Ramy

On Monday, June 18, 2012 11:13:38 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 10:54:30 AM UTC-7, cuflyer wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 9:37:03 AM UTC-4, Linwood wrote:
Anyone have any knowledge of the three fatality glider crash in Texas?
Glider type? Situation?

Linwood

Kid on his mother's lap - ? Affecting control - ?
This is really ugly.

1FL

It was indeed the freaking tail dolly!!!
http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2012...gation/#5891-7

Ramy

I meant to say frigging tail dolly!
Of course it is just a speculation, but quiet evident in these photos!
http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2012...gation/#5891-7
Definitely not the first time a tail dolly is forgotten, but I never heard of it bringing down the glider!

Sigh!

Ramy

On Monday, June 18, 2012 2:13:38 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 10:54:30 AM UTC-7, cuflyer wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 9:37:03 AM UTC-4, Linwood wrote:
Anyone have any knowledge of the three fatality glider crash in Texas?
Glider type? Situation?

Linwood

Kid on his mother's lap - ? Affecting control - ?
This is really ugly.

1FL

It was indeed the freaking tail dolly!!!
http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2012...gation/#5891-7

Ramy

Nope- If the tail dolly was on, glider is still flyable. Most likely speculation on may part-#1 rule broken here which is FLY THE AIRPLANE.
I have seen a few tail dolly incidents or the years, and in every case, the pilot had to be told that the tail dolly was still on.
Other bad rule broken- NO unrestrained people in the glider- ever.
Terribly sad
UH

On Monday, June 18, 2012 11:35:25 AM UTC-7, (unknown) wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 2:13:38 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 10:54:30 AM UTC-7, cuflyer wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 9:37:03 AM UTC-4, Linwood wrote:
Anyone have any knowledge of the three fatality glider crash in Texas?
Glider type? Situation?

Linwood

Kid on his mother's lap - ? Affecting control - ?
This is really ugly.

1FL

It was indeed the freaking tail dolly!!!
http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2012...gation/#5891-7

Ramy

Nope- If the tail dolly was on, glider is still flyable. Most likely speculation on may part-#1 rule broken here which is FLY THE AIRPLANE.
I have seen a few tail dolly incidents or the years, and in every case, the pilot had to be told that the tail dolly was still on.
Other bad rule broken- NO unrestrained people in the glider- ever.
Terribly sad
UH

If it is not the cause, must be to main contributing factor. I just find it hard to believe that it is unrelated.
What a tragedy

Ramy

If it is not the cause, must be to main contributing factor. I just find it hard to believe that it is unrelated.
What a tragedy

Ramy

From the images, it appears the tail dolly may have been attached so the handle could be used as a lift point for one of the straps.

FW

On Monday, June 18, 2012 2:07:03 PM UTC-5, Frank Whiteley wrote:
If it is not the cause, must be to main contributing factor. I just find it hard to believe that it is unrelated.
What a tragedy

Ramy

From the images, it appears the tail dolly may have been attached so the handle could be used as a lift point for one of the straps.

FW

the CBS link that i posted first does show the tail dolly on before it was being lifted out of the field. but you are right it could've been put there post-crash to help with moving.

On Monday, June 18, 2012 12:21:22 PM UTC-7, Tony wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 2:07:03 PM UTC-5, Frank Whiteley wrote:
If it is not the cause, must be to main contributing factor. I just find it hard to believe that it is unrelated.
What a tragedy

Ramy

From the images, it appears the tail dolly may have been attached so the handle could be used as a lift point for one of the straps.

FW

the CBS link that i posted first does show the tail dolly on before it was being lifted out of the field. but you are right it could've been put there post-crash to help with moving.

Indeed the tail dolly is seen in earlier photo. I find it very hard to believe that someone had the presence of mind to put the tail dolly on after the crash.
I speculate that it was the main contributing factor, which perhaps caused a distraction and wrong pilot action. This reminds us again that we all human and we all do mistakes, no matter how experienced we are (my understanding he was a high time instructor). Most of the time we get away with them, but sometime we don't. The most unfortunate thing is that it happen when giving a ride to 2 family members. This really really sucks!


Ramy

Eye witness accounts are that the nose pitched down, and maybe there was some roll involved too. Neither is consistent with CG too far aft. I'm wondering if the child was secured or free to wriggle forward into the stick? Or just kick the stick forward with feet? Terrible to contemplate, no matter what. Fred

On Monday, June 18, 2012 1:55:21 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 11:35:25 AM UTC-7, (unknown) wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 2:13:38 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 10:54:30 AM UTC-7, cuflyer wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 9:37:03 AM UTC-4, Linwood wrote:
Anyone have any knowledge of the three fatality glider crash in Texas?
Glider type? Situation?

Linwood

Kid on his mother's lap - ? Affecting control - ?
This is really ugly.

1FL

It was indeed the freaking tail dolly!!!
http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2012...gation/#5891-7

Ramy

Nope- If the tail dolly was on, glider is still flyable. Most likely speculation on may part-#1 rule broken here which is FLY THE AIRPLANE.
I have seen a few tail dolly incidents or the years, and in every case, the pilot had to be told that the tail dolly was still on.
Other bad rule broken- NO unrestrained people in the glider- ever.
Terribly sad
UH

If it is not the cause, must be to main contributing factor. I just find it hard to believe that it is unrelated.
What a tragedy

Ramy

Lark manual with scratched in hard to read W&B numbers for that particular ship:
http://www.clubplaneadoresbari.com.a...ark_Manual.pdf

Seems to me that a tail dolly heavy enough to put it out of the aft limit would have to be very heavy.

Ramy

Lark manual with scratched in hard to read W&B numbers for that particular ship:http://www.clubplaneadoresbari.com.a...ark_Manual.pdf

Seems to me that a tail dolly heavy enough to put it out of the aft limit would have to be very heavy.

The manual is interesting. P. 7 says the minimum front seat weight is
183 lbs. it also gives 22-47% mac range
The chart on the last page--an obvious reference if you're taking
light passengers in the front seat -- says 90 lbs in the front seat is
ok
The calculation on the second to last page says 183 in the front seat
is fine at 37%, and 121 in each seat is fine at 39%
Why is the placard 183 lbs then?
Somebody who knows how much a lark dolly weighs could certainly tell
us minimum front seat weight with dolly on given this chart
I surely hope we're not replaying this one
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...20001208X06614

John Cochrane