Open Class Super-Ship from Windward Performance

On Aug 3, 7:31*am, wrote:
OK, I think I'll buy a lottery ticket.

However...while super ships are neat, what we really need is 400 affordable 2-seat trainers.

Something like this?http://windward-performance.com/twin...nce-sailplane/

That's a pretty neat looking two-seater, but at the price points
Windward has typically been working to, I rather doubt it will fall
within the bounds of "affordable." Also, it has a lot of features that
make it somewhat inappropriate for the ab-initio audience that Bill
needs trainers for.

Here's what I would propose for an affordable two-seat trainer:

http://www.hpaircraft.com/two-seater/cover_shot-1.jpg

http://www.hpaircraft.com/two-seater...y_2_public.pdf

More info available as the situation develops.

Thanks, Bob K.

On Friday, August 3, 2012 8:57:41 AM UTC-6, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Aug 3, 7:31*am, wrote:

OK, I think I'll buy a lottery ticket.



However...while super ships are neat, what we really need is 400 affordable 2-seat trainers.



Something like this?http://windward-performance.com/twin...nce-sailplane/



That's a pretty neat looking two-seater, but at the price points

Windward has typically been working to, I rather doubt it will fall

within the bounds of "affordable." Also, it has a lot of features that

make it somewhat inappropriate for the ab-initio audience that Bill

needs trainers for.



Here's what I would propose for an affordable two-seat trainer:



http://www.hpaircraft.com/two-seater/cover_shot-1.jpg



http://www.hpaircraft.com/two-seater...y_2_public.pdf



More info available as the situation develops.



Thanks, Bob K.

As any airplane instructor can tell you, a trainer with side-by-side seating has a lot of advantages since the student can see the instructors hand gestures and hear the instructor better.

Some will worry about students transitioning from side-by-side to center line seating but way back when we flew the Pratt-Read's, no one had a problem with the transition.

One real consideration is everyone has to remember to add ballast to replace the instructor's weight when he steps out to solo the student.

Bill D

On Aug 3, 7:57*am, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Aug 3, 7:31*am, wrote:

OK, I think I'll buy a lottery ticket.

However...while super ships are neat, what we really need is 400 affordable 2-seat trainers.

Something like this?http://windward-performance.com/twin...nce-sailplane/

That's a pretty neat looking two-seater, but at the price points
Windward has typically been working to, I rather doubt it will fall
within the bounds of "affordable." Also, it has a lot of features that
make it somewhat inappropriate for the ab-initio audience that Bill
needs trainers for.

Here's what I would propose for an affordable two-seat trainer:

http://www.hpaircraft.com/two-seater/cover_shot-1.jpg

http://www.hpaircraft.com/two-seater...y_2_public.pdf

More info available as the situation develops.

Thanks, Bob K.

Hi Bob:

Looks very nice. The side by side configuration is much more conducive
to teaching than tandem, and for an acceptable performance trade-off.
However, I would recommend making it wider based upon experience in my
side by side which is a little wider than what you show in your
drawing. At least another 6 inches might be worth considering.

Best Regards,

Gary Osoba

On Friday, August 3, 2012 8:28:15 AM UTC-7, christine anderson wrote:

Looks very nice. The side by side configuration is much more conducive
to teaching than tandem, and for an acceptable performance trade-off.
However, I would recommend making it wider based upon experience in my
side by side which is a little wider than what you show in your
drawing. At least another 6 inches might be worth considering.

Best Regards,
Gary Osoba

And, move one seat back a few inches so those of us with wider shoulders will have room to work. When can I put in my order? 8^)

Marc

On Aug 3, 9:06*am, wrote:

And, move one seat back a few inches so those of us with wider shoulders
will have room to work. *When can I put in my order? 8^)

Marc, there will be enough fore-aft adjustability in the seats so that
you can arrange shoulders. Additionally, we might place the central
divider an inch and a half or so off center so that one seat is
naturally a bit wider than the other.

Thanks, Bob K.

On Saturday, August 4, 2012 2:32:29 AM UTC-4, Bob Kuykendall wrote:

Bob, good luck with this project - we need it!

However, I have to admit I would prefer the cockpit configuration to be tandem instead of side-by-side.

It's been tried, but with no real success so far in the gliding community. For good or bad, glider pilots seem to be fashion conscious and are attracted to the sleek lines of our racing gliders, and by extension, tandem 2 seaters.

As far as instructing, the quieter cockpits of gliders takes away some of the advantage of side-side seating during initial training. Once at the solo stage, I think the tandem configuration is better.

And for all those pilots who fly club or rental trainers solo - there is no doubt the tandem configuration is superior - if nothing else than the visibility out the empty side of the cockpit.

Kirk
66

On Saturday, August 4, 2012 9:28:40 AM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:
However, I have to admit I would prefer the cockpit
configuration to be tandem instead of side-by-side.

Add my vote for side-by-side. I still have my whale
(RHJ-8), and most pilots have really enjoyed the
seating. No shouting back and forth down a long tube,
MUCH friendlier for rides, shared set of instruments.
Easier for instructor to see what's going on with
student and hit him. Visibility impact is not so much !

CG management is more challenging especially if
pilots are far enough in front of wing for good
visibility.

Much-appreciated side-by-side designs include
Platypus and Akaflieg Darmstadt D41 (sadly no
more). Most pilots who have flown these really
like the arrangement !

Always lots of opinions out there ;-)
Best Regards, Dave

The Taurus is available now. Side by side seating modern carbon construction and decent performance.

On Saturday, August 4, 2012 9:50:07 AM UTC-6, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Saturday, August 4, 2012 9:28:40 AM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:

However, I have to admit I would prefer the cockpit

configuration to be tandem instead of side-by-side.



Add my vote for side-by-side. I still have my whale

(RHJ-8), and most pilots have really enjoyed the

seating. No shouting back and forth down a long tube,

MUCH friendlier for rides, shared set of instruments.

Easier for instructor to see what's going on with

student and hit him. Visibility impact is not so much !



CG management is more challenging especially if

pilots are far enough in front of wing for good

visibility.



Much-appreciated side-by-side designs include

Platypus and Akaflieg Darmstadt D41 (sadly no

more). Most pilots who have flown these really

like the arrangement !



Always lots of opinions out there ;-)

Best Regards, Dave

On Aug 4, 8:50*am, Dave Nadler wrote:

Add my vote for side-by-side. I still have my whale
(RHJ-8), and most pilots have really enjoyed the
seating. No shouting back and forth down a long tube,
MUCH friendlier for rides, shared set of instruments.
Easier for instructor to see what's going on with
student and hit him. Visibility impact is not so much !

CG management is more challenging especially if
pilots are far enough in front of wing for good
visibility...

Thanks, Dave! I have always been inspired by Henry Preiss's designs,
and by the practical get-it-done development ethic that let him and
Dick Schreder toss so many two-seaters into the sky.

The reason the canopy rail is so low on the sides is to promote
visibility down and offside, which is sometimes sub-par in side-by-
side designs.

Bob K.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with the RHJ-8, here is a link that you
might find interesting.
http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/RHJ/C-FAJT.html

Wayne
http:/www.soaridaho.com/Schreder



"Dave Nadler" wrote in message
...

On Saturday, August 4, 2012 9:28:40 AM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:
However, I have to admit I would prefer the cockpit
configuration to be tandem instead of side-by-side.

Add my vote for side-by-side. I still have my whale
(RHJ-8), and most pilots have really enjoyed the
seating. No shouting back and forth down a long tube,
MUCH friendlier for rides, shared set of instruments.
Easier for instructor to see what's going on with
student and hit him. Visibility impact is not so much !

CG management is more challenging especially if
pilots are far enough in front of wing for good
visibility.

Much-appreciated side-by-side designs include
Platypus and Akaflieg Darmstadt D41 (sadly no
more). Most pilots who have flown these really
like the arrangement !

Always lots of opinions out there ;-)
Best Regards, Dave